[Baron Von Zeppelin]

65 GTO Spec Paint and 2tone project listed on Fbook , contributed by post-toastie.

No PHS , but should be worth the cost to get it for the car.
Said to be factory 4spd.
With the extra costs of Special Paint and 2tone ,,,, have to ponder they probably had bucks to splurge on TriPower also.
Never know , until you know.

I'm seeing it as having been a Black painted roof

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...2-9b60c1223a63

[John V.]

BVZ, for ‘64 it was common to list the paint manufacturer’s code on the PHS record and the Data Plate. I am far less familiar with the ‘65 practices.

But if it was similar/same, the 20997 likely connects to the original color.

If so, someone might have ordered this ‘65 with the ‘54/‘55 Plymouth Mohave Brown that used the Ditzler 20997. DQE prefix for enamel, DAL for lacquer.

Not so sure about Two Tone. Again, drawing on my ‘64 experience, Fremont coded the wheel color on the Data Plate. In this case, the “A” would mean black wheels.

Not sure how they might have coded the Lower and Upper body color when a Special exterior paint was ordered but I’m thinking the Special Paint was used for both Lower and Upper body..

The ‘65 BHC will be less useful than the ‘64 PHS records as they won’t show the manufacturer’s paint code but should indicate whether it was two tone or not.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Some 65s had the Dupont formula number for Tiger Gold cars , and some didn't.
I can't access all my old files to start digging into anything anymore.
The variance was probably from plant to plant.

I never got to play with any Fremont cars here in Carolina.
But 60sstuff is up on them pretty well.

The PHS would be extra neat to see on the car.
It's a very poorly put together ad with limited pictures of partial quality.
The car has been whooped on in many ways , but it doesn't show any 2tone trim.

1 picture shows some inner passenger door color that looks maroon.
1 picture shows some trunklid hinge color that looks burgundy.
The one quarter panel sanded down doesn't show any sign of either color.

It's still for sale with the same 5 pictures.
At the asking price - seems like they would think a PHS would be justifiable.

16k and beat with an ugly stick , then raped.

[John V.]

Pretty sure all Special Paint colors applied at the Pontiac Plant came from DuPont.

I’m not sure about Fremont, so when I crossed the no. to a Ditzler color, I wasn’t real sure what to make of that.

I like some of the Special Paint colors, always makes me wonder what made the original owner choose a particular color. With 15 standard colors to choose from, there had to be a pretty strong reason for a guy to pay extra for a color.

I was never a fan of Tiger Gold but I figured guys ordered it mostly because of marketing influence and the color name. But the guys that picked a Cadillac color or an older color offered by a different car brand are the ones that make me curious.

Is there a link to the FB ad?

[bdk1976]

Spec Paint cars (and strange color combinations) have always intrigued me. I can see why colors from different models/makes show up from time to time - someone is looking for cars and sees a color they like on a Caddy and asks if they can get it on a Pontiac. Or they owned/liked a color from a different manufacturer and ask if they can get a real car painted in a color they saw on a mustang, valiant, etc. I think there have been a few documented instances of special orders associated with sports teams and/or company colors as well.

One of my personal favorites is the 69 Z28 ordered in Evening Orchid/Iris Mist. The threads on Yenko/Camaro forums where the 'experts' got it wrong and argue with the guy that originally ordered it are frosting on the cake.

As far as the facebook car above, I am no expert, but not sure I would assume that the 5 digit number is necessarily a paint code (although I agree a mfg paint code shows up on spec paint tags from other plants occasionally) - other non-spec paint Fremont cars seem to have similar numbers (usually 5 digits) in that location.

Looking at my small sampling of 65 Fremont trim tags, both this # and the body # appear to be out of sync with the samples I have (both lower than I would expect), which generally appear to be sequential based on production week. I can't imagine the tag is not original, but interesting car for sure - hopefully someone with more knowledge of Fremont tags can provide more insight?

[John V.]

bdk1976, your post got me to check a few ‘65 Fremont Data Plates.

Seems that 20997 has nothing to do with the paint color. Probably the Load or Sequence No.., very much like what was coded by Fremont in ‘64.

IIRC, for ‘64 it was always coded by 4 digits and was related to a tally of total Pontiac production for the Model Year. But since Fremont assembled close to 40,000 Pontiacs (going by memory, may be a bit off), the 4 digit code was essentially “recycled”. You have to know when the car was built to know the “complete” no., for example, whether there no. was 1234 or 11234, or 21234, or 31234.

Meaningless to us today.

You mentioned that the Body No. also appears out of sync.

The Body No. can only be compared to other Fremont built Lemans 2 dr. Hardtops. It will look out of sync if you look at Body Nos. For a post coupe or a convertible since they had their own respective running totals.

[bdk1976]

I put the data from a few tag images I could easily find on my PC into a table. I also went out and checked one of my own cars, which is a late build Fremont 65 hardtop (happens to be 7E like the facebook example). These are all 23737 cars.

As you mention, it does appear the number in the ACC section is not fully sequential with respect to body # - it does appear as though it may have reset later in the model year.

The body number on the FB car still does not seem to line up with the others - would seem to fall into Mar/April timeframe if I am interpreting it correctly? Maybe a typo and should be 18157?

Like I said before, this is a small sample size I'm looking at, and I'm definitely no expert - just something I noticed as I was looking through some old files trying to find another example of a '65 spec paint car from Fremont.

(Note - the "48 00" entry has a space in the middle with a VERY light imprint of what looks like an 8, but the stamps for 48 00 are very well defined)

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Is there a link to the FB ad?

Yes , in the first post there is a Facebook link.
And 1 picture link.

Seller thinks it is a Cadillac Maroon color from that year.
The trunk hinge color looks pretty good - purple side of burgundy.

I've never seen a special paint car with a 2tone painted roof before.
But the option was possible.
So that sorta caught my eye.

The car is in California but it is a Mess .
No love in a long long time.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

If some color in a sheltered spot looked good/not close to a standard 65 color ,,,,, I would want it .
But would have to be a documented WS car - and really cheap.
It's whooped and bare.

Some special color cars are just too close to a standard offering color to be really "special".

[John V.]

I saw the link after I posted and checked it out. If that is what a $16k ‘65 GTO gets you…..OMG!

I was never a fan of gold cars so never partial to the Tiger Gold. I thought it was kinda weird to pick that color since they already offered a standard gold color, right?

Some Special paint colors do seem a bit more “special” but another problem is trying to determine exactly what the color was if there is no documentation now.

bdk1976, with your data collection I see now what you mean on the Body No. I suspect a typo rather than some nefarious swap. Unfortunately, I don’t think the ‘65 BHC shows the Body No. so again, no way to be certain.

I suspect the other coded no. 20997 “fits” but would take some more research for me to understand it.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

On the 65 Gold cars , I like Capri Gold with Gold interior.
Capri is almost a dead match with the Gold interior vinyl, no clash.
I had a 65 Capri Gold with Gold interior - Hardtop , WS M20 3.23 with AC
Real classy looking combo.

But it's not my favorite choice in 65 color combos.