[gtohunter]

Used to be subject to smog tests in Allegheny co, Pa., and the adjoining county, Westmorland had no smog testing. Most people who lived in Westmorland wound up driving into Allegheny to work each day, but didn't have the hassle of emissions tests!
So, yeah, more of a money maker for one county than actually caring about pollution!
I moved to SC in 84 so I don't know what's happened since.

[mechanickeith]

Originally Posted by Gator67

If the car has collector car insurance which somehow limits usage to non-daily driving/commuting and is registered as a collector car, then it’s exempt from emissions testing. I have a 67, 68, and 70 registered this way. I use AZ year of manufacture plates rather than collector car plates.

Yes, In AZ anything 67 & newer needs to be emission tested if you are in Maricopa or Pima counties. (Phoenix or Tucson) It varies by year as to what's tested. Some years only require a tail pipe sniff, others require the car be ran on rollers in a simulated driving test. You need to contact an emissions station for the info for your year or you can search here.

http://myazcar.com/faqs#testingWhat


To qualify for the emissions testing for classic cars, you must show you have classic car insurance that limits the cars usage & also must show you have another vehicle (newer) to drive as a daily driver.

[Stuart]

It appears most information can be found here: https://www.myazcar.com/testing-info-and-fees There's no need to talk about what emissions testing is required in other states, or to argue about things. I've deleted a few posts that were argumentative and served no purpose.

[promptcritical]

Originally Posted by Stuart

It appears most information can be found here: https://www.myazcar.com/testing-info-and-fees There's no need to talk about what emissions testing is required in other states, or to argue about things. I've deleted a few posts that were argumentative and served no purpose.

Thanks. I saw that website...it doesn't have the info I was looking for. I called and the gal I talked with didn't know anything about exemptions for collector cars, so I asked here thinking that the members who live in Phoenix might be able to help.

[promptcritical]

Originally Posted by mechanickeith

Yes, In AZ anything 67 & newer needs to be emission tested if you are in Maricopa or Pima counties. (Phoenix or Tucson) It varies by year as to what's tested. Some years only require a tail pipe sniff, others require the car be ran on rollers in a simulated driving test. You need to contact an emissions station for the info for your year or you can search here.

http://myazcar.com/faqs#testingWhat


To qualify for the emissions testing for classic cars, you must show you have classic car insurance that limits the cars usage & also must show you have another vehicle (newer) to drive as a daily driver.

Thanks...that's what I was after.

[mgarblik]

Thank you for that link. I read all the information with interest because I was a certified EPA emissions trainer for the State of OH, for 10 years. The AZ system they have set up is very similar to what Ohio ran for 10 years, ending about 15 years ago. The primary difference I saw was in OH they ran the emissions back only 25 years from current production and it was on a year by year sliding scale until they reached 1996. (OBDII). After that, all vehicles were tested. IMO, it is crazy to go back so far in years as there are very few pre OBDII cars on the road now and even fewer are used as daily drivers. But possibly the lack of rust and rot keeps many more older cars on the road in AZ. The only think I couldn't find in the link were the "CUT POINTS". This is super important because this is the threshold at which vehicles pass or fail. In OH, a vehicle failed when it's emissions exceeded 1.5 times the tailpipe totals when it was new. In OH, the failure rate was as high as 28% failures and the population went crazy. So the EPA reduced the Cut point to 2 times the initial build totals. Still had about 17% failure rate so it was reduced to 2.5 times the initial build emission level. Finally, when the program ended, they were at 3 times the level and about 5% failures. It was ridiculous if clean air was the goal. I personally removed 3 spark wires from a V-8 engine and it passed at those cut points. It ended up just being a money grab with no benefit for the air quality. To me it's important not to have a bunch of lousy, poor running vehicles driving around ruining the air quality. But when the government ends up running the program and making the testing rules and changing them as the political winds blow, it becomes ineffective. Good luck in AZ. The Ohio experiment was an abject failure.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Thank you for that link. I read all the information with interest because I was a certified EPA emissions trainer for the State of OH, for 10 years. The AZ system they have set up is very similar to what Ohio ran for 10 years, ending about 15 years ago. The primary difference I saw was in OH they ran the emissions back only 25 years from current production and it was on a year by year sliding scale until they reached 1996. (OBDII). After that, all vehicles were tested. IMO, it is crazy to go back so far in years as there are very few pre OBDII cars on the road now and even fewer are used as daily drivers. But possibly the lack of rust and rot keeps many more older cars on the road in AZ. The only think I couldn't find in the link were the "CUT POINTS". This is super important because this is the threshold at which vehicles pass or fail. In OH, a vehicle failed when it's emissions exceeded 1.5 times the tailpipe totals when it was new. In OH, the failure rate was as high as 28% failures and the population went crazy. So the EPA reduced the Cut point to 2 times the initial build totals. Still had about 17% failure rate so it was reduced to 2.5 times the initial build emission level. Finally, when the program ended, they were at 3 times the level and about 5% failures. It was ridiculous if clean air was the goal. I personally removed 3 spark wires from a V-8 engine and it passed at those cut points. It ended up just being a money grab with no benefit for the air quality. To me it's important not to have a bunch of lousy, poor running vehicles driving around ruining the air quality. But when the government ends up running the program and making the testing rules and changing them as the political winds blow, it becomes ineffective. Good luck in AZ. The Ohio experiment was an abject failure.

I lived in Ohio when that came and went. Crazy what went on.

On the AZ deal, with lack of rust keeping older cars on the road. I used to think that until I moved out here. Despite the fact that we have year round driving weather, still 99% of the cars I see on the roads on an every day basis is new stuff.
My family is one of the rare few that even drive these classics on a daily basis around town. I'm always the only one at the grocery store or restaurant. I sometimes see another classic maybe once a week cruising through town. Most of them simply stay tucked away until a show or cruise pops up. I've seen no reason to date why AZ still needs to be testing all the way back to 1967.

[promptcritical]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I lived in Ohio when that came and went. Crazy what went on.

On the AZ deal, with lack of rust keeping older cars on the road. I used to think that until I moved out here. Despite the fact that we have year round driving weather, still 99% of the cars I see on the roads on an every day basis is new stuff.
My family is one of the rare few that even drive these classics on a daily basis around town. I'm always the only one at the grocery store or restaurant. I sometimes see another classic maybe once a week cruising through town. Most of them simply stay tucked away until a show or cruise pops up. I've seen no reason to date why AZ still needs to be testing all the way back to 1967.

$$$$$ ?

[mgarblik]

I certainly understand your position, and agree there is no logical reason whatsoever from an environmental standpoint to test pre-1996 vehicles because they make up so few total vehicles. If the situation really upsets you, you can probably find many like minded people with old cars and fight the system. When the Ohio system was first proposed, it included an inspection component. The initial proposal allowed ZERO underhood modifications, not even a chrome valve cover or K &N air filter. I was part of a lobbying group that went to Columbus, (OH capitol) and made a case that what comes out the tailpipe is what effects the air quality. Nothing under the hood should matter in any way. Eventually, the rules were changed and the only inspection was verification of a catalytic converter if factory equipped. I didn't have many friends at the EPA, even though my logic was clear. The EPA wanted that iron fist of control. Cleaner air was just an abstract concept they used to conduct the flawed program. Again, I hope AZ does a much better and more fair version of the program. Much like the failed program in Pennsylvania, when a new governor was elected in OH, the program went away quickly without a trace, with the exception of a couple areas around Cleveland, where the Federal EPA stepped in and mandates a limited program .

[mechanickeith]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I certainly understand your position, and agree there is no logical reason whatsoever from an environmental standpoint to test pre-1996 vehicles because they make up so few total vehicles.

That was the logic here in AZ. We (AZ) were under an EPA mandate because of the pollution in the Phx & Tucson areas. We have here a group called the Arizona Auto Hobbyist council. Its made up of a bunch of car club members & we have lobbyists that goes to the state capital & lobby against or for certain bills in front of the state legislature. We lobbied against a car scrapping bill, for a seat belt bill & the biggest one we went for was emissions on classic cars. We proved that for the most part, the auto hobbyist here in Az maintains their car in better than new condition. The cars are driven very little & doesn't impact the smog here in the state. It was approved here in AZ by the voters & then it had to go to EPA in San Francisco for approval. Then it had to go to Washington DC EPA for another approval. Finally it was signed into law here in AZ over 2 years after it was passed. That's how all this came about here in AZ. You have to have a classic car policy that limits driving & must prove you have another daily driver car. Then no emissions required.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by promptcritical

Thanks. I saw that website...it doesn't have the info I was looking for. I called and the gal I talked with didn't know anything about exemptions for collector cars, so I asked here thinking that the members who live in Phoenix might be able to help.

That link goes to the overview page for all the emissions testing information...if you click on "testing info and fees" at the top of the page, it shows a link to the FAQ page in the other link Keith put up, as well as links to other sections of their website that may be helpful.

[promptcritical]

Nothing in the FAQs about collector cars being exempt so I called the number. The gal didn’t know the answer to my question and I’d asked here and got the information I was looking for. Thanks to all..

[mechanickeith]

Originally Posted by promptcritical

Nothing in the FAQs about collector cars being exempt so I called the number. The gal didn’t know the answer to my question and I’d asked here and got the information I was looking for. Thanks to all..

When you go to DMV to register the car, take your collector car insurance papers with you. Then it wont require emissions.

[promptcritical]

Originally Posted by mechanickeith

When you go to DMV to register the car, take your collector car insurance papers with you. Then it wont require emissions.

Thank you for the information Keith. I really appreciate it.

[unruhjonny]

even though I am neither an Arizona, or a United States resident, I have found some of the posts in this thread quite interesting!

[68azbird]

1967 does not need any testing or inspection, my 1968 Firebird has not required any testing since 2005 when they changed the rules. If you have colector plates your good to go.

[Mister Pontiac]

PromptCritical, not sure if your original question was ever answered here. Somehow I missed this thread, but stumbled onto it today.

I have my 67's on collector policies now, so they do not require emissions testing (as others have stated). But I do daily drive my 71 GTO in Maricopa county, and as such, it carries no collector policy (has regular insurance) which means the car requires an emissions test. It doesn't' matter what plates you have on the car. It has to do with the year of manufacture, and what purpose the car is used for as dictated by the insurance coverage.

The testing process is actually pretty straightforward. They do put the car on the 'rollers,' strap it down and chock it, then put the sniffers in the tailpipes. There is an idle test, then a 'load' test where the accelerate the car to 35mph on the rollers for 30 seconds, then back to idle for another 30 seconds. The sniff limits are fairly generous. I think it's around 3.0% CO and 1000PPM on the HC which is pretty easy to meet if the car is in reasonable tune and (obviously) not belching smoke out the tailpipe. I don't think I've flunked a test in the last 10 years with 3 different daily drivers.

Other than that, the only thing I've ever had them check 'emission wise' on the car is that the gas cap was sealed (in a non vented application), but I don't even think they have the adapter to check it for sealing pressure like the new 'click caps.' Basically, the guy pulls the gas cap off, looks at the rubber seal, then puts it back on.

As far as under the hood? I think they've looked once or twice over the years too, but honestly, they have no idea what they're looking at. That's not a slight to them, it's just that most of the techs are younger guys who wouldn't know if the car needed an air pump or carbon canister, let alone how it should be all hooked up. They don't exactly have training or manuals that they reference for our old Pontiac's. The more savvy techs may recognize a PCV valve, but that's about it. I've had some older techs look at the car too, and typically, they just want to tell you how cool it is to see the car there, and they don't pay much attention to anything under the hood. Having said that, my drivers are basically stock (under the hood as well), so there's nothing to draw their attention.

Anyway, I hope that helps if you decide to go the route of emissions testing. It's not a big deal, and it's once a year. I think it costs $19.

[promptcritical]

Originally Posted by Mister Pontiac

PromptCritical, not sure if your original question was ever answered here. Somehow I missed this thread, but stumbled onto it today.

I have my 67's on collector policies now, so they do not require emissions testing (as others have stated). But I do daily drive my 71 GTO in Maricopa county, and as such, it carries no collector policy (has regular insurance) which means the car requires an emissions test. It doesn't' matter what plates you have on the car. It has to do with the year of manufacture, and what purpose the car is used for as dictated by the insurance coverage.

The testing process is actually pretty straightforward. They do put the car on the 'rollers,' strap it down and chock it, then put the sniffers in the tailpipes. There is an idle test, then a 'load' test where the accelerate the car to 35mph on the rollers for 30 seconds, then back to idle for another 30 seconds. The sniff limits are fairly generous. I think it's around 3.0% CO and 1000PPM on the HC which is pretty easy to meet if the car is in reasonable tune and (obviously) not belching smoke out the tailpipe. I don't think I've flunked a test in the last 10 years with 3 different daily drivers.

Other than that, the only thing I've ever had them check 'emission wise' on the car is that the gas cap was sealed (in a non vented application), but I don't even think they have the adapter to check it for sealing pressure like the new 'click caps.' Basically, the guy pulls the gas cap off, looks at the rubber seal, then puts it back on.

As far as under the hood? I think they've looked once or twice over the years too, but honestly, they have no idea what they're looking at. That's not a slight to them, it's just that most of the techs are younger guys who wouldn't know if the car needed an air pump or carbon canister, let alone how it should be all hooked up. They don't exactly have training or manuals that they reference for our old Pontiac's. The more savvy techs may recognize a PCV valve, but that's about it. I've had some older techs look at the car too, and typically, they just want to tell you how cool it is to see the car there, and they don't pay much attention to anything under the hood. Having said that, my drivers are basically stock (under the hood as well), so there's nothing to draw their attention.

Anyway, I hope that helps if you decide to go the route of emissions testing. It's not a big deal, and it's once a year. I think it costs $19.

Thank you for the information. I haven’t registered my Formula here yet. The New Mexico plates are still good and I just got the car back on the road a few weeks ago. I have it insured here with my Hagerty policy. I don’t know if that policy says anything about it being collector insurance or not. I’ll have to look. I’m not sure if the registration places are even open now with the Wuhan Virus stuff going on.

[Mister Pontiac]

If you have a Hagerty policy, I'm betting it's a 'collector vehicle' policy. Good idea to check for sure.

If you do need to go the emissions route, the places are open. I was there last week with my son and his late model.

Good luck!

[promptcritical]

Thank you.