[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by DOC

Now is the time to spin it over with just the starter and use a mechanics stethoscope to pinpoint noise. Just be careful to not drop anything down there. Also, As it is turning over, feel each push rod, do you feel the noise? Touch areas between the push rods on the block and see if you feel the noise.

Look for any witness marks, however slight from the bars on the roller lifters especially the most rear ones and make sure they are not touching the block as it goes through the whole crank rotation. Hard to tell in the pic, But does #7 exhaust lifter bar look close to the block?


Otherwise, I do not see anything standing out. Looks good in there.

I do see that tie bar is close. They are thinking the noise is near the distributor. It would take 20 minutes to have that intake off and valley pan. Then crank it over and feel those pushrods and look that tie bar over.

[MidnightAuto]

Been following along. sucks for all those involved, buyer and seller. Anyway, if u wanted to hear what poly locks barely touching a valve cover sounds like, watch this video. This was a month ago for me. I doubt that is your problem as paul has said, but it so easy to pull off a valve cover I might just do it for thoroughness. Maybe the knock sounds different with cover off to help pin point and also watch the valves running.

I added second set of valve cover gaskets and my ticking/knocking was gone.

[68 461 Bird]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

Prior to me getting the motor back, Paul spoke with the guys that worked on the motor and he cosigned everything that was done.

So he actually farmed it out to someone else?

[MidnightAuto]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kj-ItGxqywo

[Va68goat]

64speed,
We're going to address the PCV but as you said, my friends and guys from the forum say that wont cause a knock but it will settle the idle.

68 461 Bird,
Paul felt that it wasn't a good idea to send the motor back for something silly. He spoke with everyone that worked on the motor and suggested parts to replace. $1,900 later in diagnosing and parts and an additional $2,575 to Paul, I have the same knocking noise as I did before. Take a look at this picture. Could this knocking noise be heard without mufflers? I would imagine not but I'm still waiting for Paul to post the video of my motor running at idle

[Va68goat]

MidnightAuto,

Thats close but that was checked here after the knocking noise was discovered. Paul suggested thicker gaskets and thats what I sent him. I'll have to look at some old pictures and videos but I think we tried taller valve covers and the knocking noise was still present.

[lust4speed]

Originally Posted by tom s

OK,another straw,as I remember when those valve cover came out they did not like a lot of lift!

True. Those covers are cast really thick and the inside has a rounded roof with lots of material at the top. Believe the set we measured had a little less than 1-3/4" clearance inside. Ended up with 2 thick gaskets with them on a Kaufman head.

[68 461 Bird]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

64speed,
We're going to address the PCV but as you said, my friends and guys from the forum say that wont cause a knock but it will settle the idle.

68 461 Bird,
Paul felt that it wasn't a good idea to send the motor back for something silly. He spoke with everyone that worked on the motor and suggested parts to replace. $1,900 later in diagnosing and parts and an additional $2,575 to Paul, I have the same knocking noise as I did before. Take a look at this picture. Could this knocking noise be heard without mufflers? I would imagine not but I'm still waiting for Paul to post the video of my motor running at idle

Never thought a knocking noise was silly. I saw that picture and thought low budget dyno. I saw Butlers dyno room when he set it up and thought that was a high end dyno. He did have turbo mufflers if I remember correctly. I don't know how he could hear anything with that exhaust going into an open pipe.
I read a comment that Paul gave up on the thread because he didn't like the direction it went. You would think he would want to save his reputation and do what it takes to make a customer happy after taking so much money from you.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

Formulajones,
Yeah ok. Since you're an uninvolved, biased participant in this, I understand what you're saying. No need for me to comment any further.

Good, because you obviously can't see the forest for the trees, you'll never figure it out continuing down a path like this.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by 68 461 Bird

You would think he would want to save his reputation and do what it takes to make a customer happy after taking so much money from you.

Oh if you only knew what's been going on off the forum for the last year and half you would understand Paul's point of view. Unfortunately all that's been shown here is Joe's point of view, dragging Paul through the mud. Paul has held himself to a much higher standard and has already went above and beyond what any other business owner would do in a situation like this. Most would have told Joe to pound salt long before all this. Paul doesn't have to worry, his customer base is doing just fine. Doesn't really matter what Joe thinks or says. He would benefit more proceeding to diagnose what Highway started and stop pointing fingers. But it'll take someone on Joe's side of things to tell him that before he'll comprehend it

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

Sorry if I got the wrong idea. You stated you never saw a flat roller cam. A bad roller will surely flatten a lobe.

Absolutely, but do you know how infrequently lifter rollers go bad WITHOUT some sort of manufacturer's defect? I've seen 6.9/7.3 IDI diesels with 500,000 miles on them that still had free lifter rollers.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by 64speed

I can see an improperly plumbed PCV causing a skip but not a pronounced knock.

It's not the plumbing; it's the PCV valve itself. If you get a bad one they will sometimes flutter with engine vacuum. The fluttering causes a clicking sound. It's a long shot but worth a look.

[Va68goat]

Formulajones,
You're at distraction at best. Just because I don't consider your opinion of value does not mean the knocking will not be located. I'll address this one more time but I would like to get back to topic. As for whats been going outside of the forum, it would be very easy to screenshot everything since the motor failed on the dyno and cut and paste emails. Arizona and Virginia are both one party consent states as well. As soon as the build went bad, I immediatley realized I had to document everything. I actually saved everything since day one but thats just me.

Comprehend this Formulajones...why would I do or say anything that would anger Paul when I needed his involvement while we were diagnosing the problem? Why would I do or say anything that would anger Paul while he had possession of my motor? I questioned him like every disappointed customer would. I never said one negative thing about Paul until I paid the $2,575 ransom and I had the motor in my possession. Now that the motor is still knocking and he ran away, anyone would be mad. I don't want to take any action outside of talking to him and having him help me get through it. I'm prepared to take this to another level right now if need be but I don't want to do that because I feel this is best handled man to man. Paul has made a choice to wash his hands. So eventually, there is not going to be another option for me. As I said before, Jeff has been texting me and said he has a guy that can come look at the motor. I appreciate that and I hope that happens soon. I just want this motor right. As I told the guys that have worked on my car. I don't want guys that are "on my side", it's best to have guys that don't even care about that and they just want to see this motor run.

Remember Formulajones....you have my number. Feel free to call me but you're not moderating this situation.

[Pronto Poncho]

Originally Posted by ponchjoe

What hold down are you using on the distributor? Any chance it is bouncing ever so slightly?? Make sure the bolt is not bottoming out in the hole.
I’m reaching here but don’t remember that being thrown out.

Not even a remote possibility. But Thanks

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by 68 461 Bird

I read a comment that Paul gave up on the thread because he didn't like the direction it went. You would think he would want to save his reputation and do what it takes to make a customer happy after taking so much money from you.

You would think that be the case. Says something, doesn't it?

[Pronto Poncho]

Originally Posted by MrParty

I don't know much but why not put the engine on a run stand? That would eliminate anything with the car and would make it easier to get around and hear things. I understand it's more $$ unless you can borrow one but it would help eliminate things. It would also tell you if it's 100% the engine.

Definitely in the Motor.

The engine was run with the following removed. All belts, Fuel pump and torque converter completely disconnected. It was sitting there Virgin on the frame without anything attached. Unfortunately it did not make any difference.

It has been gone over with a mechanics stethoscope and run with valve covers off. With no change. Every possible test has been done to further evaluate the valve train with no results. The only signature picked up on the stethoscope was at the base of the distributer and the oil filter receiver.

In over 30 years of Pontiac engine experience this is the first time I have ever seen something like this that could not be easily identified.

[dataway]

I know the distributor has been pulled a few times .... are the ears off the oil pump drive shaft so it could be pulled and checked for witness marks?

[Pronto Poncho]

Originally Posted by dataway

I know the distributor has been pulled a few times .... are the ears off the oil pump drive shaft so it could be pulled and checked for witness marks?

Sorry but, Say what ?

The witness marks were already addressed. The oil pump shaft is the same and is was checked to be straight and undamaged. No the shaft cannot be removed. Please refer to video of shaft turning while in motor. All is as should be. :-)

[Va68goat]

dataway,
Here are the witness marks that were located on the oil pump shaft.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by Pronto Poncho

Sorry but, Say what ?

The witness marks were already addressed. The oil pump shaft is the same and is was checked to be straight and undamaged. No the shaft cannot be removed. Please refer to video of shaft turning while in motor. All is as should be. :-)

He’s referring to the tabs on the oil pump shaft that keep it from pulling out when removing dizzy.

Dataway - ears are intact