[Alvin]

In case you missed it, in the Jan 2015 of Hemmings Muscle Machines:

A 1969 Judge w 5-spd and other tweaks "modified" article, the Tri-Power carb base insulator install to prevent heat-soak and Joe Oldham's apology for being so critical against the then new 1974 GTO in his May 1974 CARS magazine article. A portion of the "Happy Birthday GTO" Oldham 1/2015 HMM writing below:

"*Today, hindsight being 20-20, I can see the merits of the '74 GTO for what it was. With the whole muscle car genre in its death throes, the car was actually a valiant effort by Pontiac to fight the good fight and do something noble. No other manufacturer had anything quite like it in the market place , and I should have given the car its due."

So, that's (3) directly related Pontiac items in HMM which is why I've continued reading since day 1 as a charter subscriber.

*Thxs for the belated kudos, but we (here) already knew the '74s were cool, true Pontiac's & GTO's...so welcome to the party, albeit quite a bit late.

[chicagoland]

I remember reading the Cars Illustrated article, still have it buried in store room, when I was in Middle school and getting mad at writer. I wanted to see the compact GTO succeed. Main issue was the styling was not different enough from Chevy Nova, after years of more unique LeMans vs. Chevelles.

But, at the time, Plymouth Dusters and Dodge Darts were selling well, with 340/360 motors. Pontiac was going after that new niche. However, purists wanted 400 ci plus or nothing.

One comment I disliked was they dissed the shaker scoop, yet it was on Trans Ams. And also, the lap and 1/4 times were respectable. It was just the "looks" that got cold shoulder.

[chicagoland]

To the top, I just started commenting after finding the new URL for PY Forums.

Pontiac wanted a piece of the Duster 340/360 and Nova SS 350 market with '74 Ventura GTO. Also wanted a halo car for the line.

[flyingn]

Its weird how your opinion can change over time.. The throw away cars of the 80's are more and more coveted over time

[chicagoland]

I was 12 in fall '73 when the '74 GTO was on the cover of Motor Trend's Sept issue. I was glad to see a more Pontiac-ish Ventura and liked a lighter GTO.
Wished I could have gotten one in 90's and kept, but cant now with bills.

Sure, it's not a 1969 Ram Air IV Judge, but it was a competitor to Duster/Dart 360. Also, many teens were buying new '73 Nova SS 350's and modding them, etc. Gas Crisis was coming though, but a light Goat was a good idea. '75 GTO would have had to run a Buick 350, per GM, and Pontiac said 'no go'. John DeLorean was long gone.

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by chicagoland

I was 12 in fall '73 when the '74 GTO was on the cover of Motor Trend's Sept issue. I was glad to see a more Pontiac-ish Ventura and liked a lighter GTO.
Wished I could have gotten one in 90's and kept, but cant now with bills.

Sure, it's not a 1969 Ram Air IV Judge, but it was a competitor to Duster/Dart 360. Also, many teens were buying new '73 Nova SS 350's and modding them, etc. Gas Crisis was coming though, but a light Goat was a good idea. '75 GTO would have had to run a Buick 350, per GM, and Pontiac said 'no go'. John DeLorean was long gone.

Chicagoland - I totally agree with your assessment on the '74 GTO. We (me and brother Dan) were totally impressed with how well balanced and well thought out the X-bodies are. They have roomy interiors, big trunks, and (I think) good looks. The 200-hp 350 engines are surprisingly quick and torquey. I know they are quicker than the 350-4bbl Chevy Novas, Buick Apollos, and Olds Omegas, but not the 360 4-bbl Dusters and Darts. They are rated 40 hp more than the Pontiac. It's too bad PMD limited the rear end gear choices to 2.73 or 3.08's and the trans to a Saginaw with a mystery shifter. That thing is a piece of chit and shifting quickly is a pipe dream. I would like to see if I could get a Hurst shifter to work, especially with the console.

If the factory a least allowed a 230-hp 400 with the Muncie of BW-ST10 4-speed trans (the std. drivetrain in the 74 TA) and a 3.42 rear end, that would have changed a lot of ill-will many earlier GTO owners harbored toward the X-body variant. I have a BW-ST10 trans ready for the GTO and it already has a non-stock 3.42 rear end in it (by the previous owner). When it comes to weight the '74 GTO is around 3600 lb. with it's big bumpers and heavy Pontiac V8, or about 300 lbs more than the '72 with the 307. We really like these cars and they are totally underappreciated.

Dennis

[SD455DJ]

In high school/jr. college days, we had a friend who bought a new '74 Nova SS with a 350 4-bbl. (175 hp???) and the Saginaw 4-spd. It was a pretty car, gold with black interior with the 6-hole rally wheels, WLT's and the dual over-the-fender stripes, but it was a dog and a pig on gas no matter how well it was tuned. He later traded it in on a Mustang II.

Dennis

[SD455DJ]

At this years Pure Stock Drags we had a '73 Duster 340 (240 net hp) running a best of 13.782 @ 98.48 mph (258 rwhp and 3464 lbs. w/ driver) with 3.55 gears and auto trans. The '74 GTO is 200 lbs heavier and 40 less hp, not to mention rear gear ratio challenged with only 3.08's factory available. The Mopars were still the small blocks to beat in 73/74.

Dennis

[chicagoland]

There was still a sporty Dart/Duster with warmed up 360 in '75, not sure about '76.

[1stgenbird]

This tread is timely. Yesterday I purchased a rust-free Buccaneer Red 74 GTO. The interior is currently out and I will be needing some interior pieces, but will be a fun project.

[se428bandit]

It's a shame that Pontiac didn't drop the D-port 455 in the '74 GTO or up the compression on the 350 to 8.5 and use the 067 camshaft with a 3.23 gear. On my '72 Ventura we put a 068 cam in the original engine and milled 5 ccs off the heads. With a 3.23 single track rear I got it to go 9.24 in the 1.8 mile. I wish now I would have put my RobbMc fuel pump and LB manifolds on the 350 before I pulled it out of the car.

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by se428bandit

It's a shame that Pontiac didn't drop the D-port 455 in the '74 GTO or up the compression on the 350 to 8.5 and use the 067 camshaft with a 3.23 gear. On my '72 Ventura we put a 068 cam in the original engine and milled 5 ccs off the heads. With a 3.23 single track rear I got it to go 9.24 in the 1.8 mile. I wish now I would have put my RobbMc fuel pump and LB manifolds on the 350 before I pulled it out of the car.

se428bandit - What heads, intake and carb were on it when you made the 9.24 pass? I agree that if either the 400 or 455 D-ports were available, '74 GTO's would be highly collectable today and a ton faster. It is too bad PMD didn't at least make the 350 more a performance motor to compete with the 340/360 Mopars.

Dennis

[carbking]

Originally Posted by se428bandit

It's a shame that Pontiac didn't drop the D-port 455 in the '74 GTO or up the compression on the 350 to 8.5 and use the 067 camshaft with a 3.23 gear. On my '72 Ventura we put a 068 cam in the original engine and milled 5 ccs off the heads. With a 3.23 single track rear I got it to go 9.24 in the 1.8 mile. I wish now I would have put my RobbMc fuel pump and LB manifolds on the 350 before I pulled it out of the car.

That article, and others like it at the time, are the EXACT reason I built a Pontiac 350 instead of dropping a 455 into the car. I wanted to prove what could have been, had the government and the insurance companies not been a driving force in new car design in the 1970's.

As both the car and its owner age, the car is probably aging slower than its owner

The car is now MUCH faster than the car's owner!

The cost of building the 350 to its current power level certainly exceeded the cost of a 455, but oh, the results are great!

And Dennis - the Saginaw is easily replaced by a B/W, and the car does not need to weigh 3600 lbs

Jon

[chicagoland]

Would have been cool if there was a performance Pontiac 350 4bbl earlier than '74, to go along with small block Chevys and W-31 Olds 350.
And compete with 340/360 Mopar and Ford 351 CJ.

[SD455DJ]

Chicagoland - PMD did...there was the 68/69 350HO that was rated at 320/330 hp available in the A and F-bodies (non-GTO obviously). The '68 had high compression (10.5) small valve heads with the 066/067 cams (auto/manual). Then substituted the big valve #48 heads in '69 with the 067 cam for autos and 068 for manuals. Too bad they didn't continue on with them for '70 and later.

Dennis

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by carbking

That article, and others like it at the time, are the EXACT reason I built a Pontiac 350 instead of dropping a 455 into the car. I wanted to prove what could have been, had the government and the insurance companies not been a driving force in new car design in the 1970's.

As both the car and its owner age, the car is probably aging slower than its owner

The car is now MUCH faster than the car's owner!

The cost of building the 350 to its current power level certainly exceeded the cost of a 455, but oh, the results are great!

And Dennis - the Saginaw is easily replaced by a B/W, and the car does not need to weigh 3600 lbs

Jon

Jon - I'd love to hear what you did to your 350. In a '74 GTO? Yes, the BW is a direct fit, just the shifter is the snag. I've got a few Hurst Competition Plus' shifters I can try to work with for proper fit with the console. I'd love to hear from others what their '74 GTO's weighed stock.

Dennis

[carbking]

Dennis - I don't use PM's but feel free to either call 573-392-7378 (9-4 Mon-Tues central time) or email me through my website. For the forums, lets just say the weight/power ratio is a lot less than 10.

The hang-up with the B/W was the speedometer cable. Ended up using magnetic speedometer.

Jon.

[carbking]

Oh, what the heck?

Pontiac 350

Forged rods
Forged pistons (memory .040 over)
48 heads with 67cc combustion chamber (compression 10.38:1)
RA IV cam
RA IV aluminum intake with no cross-over (stainless plates to cover exhaust)
Adjustable valve train
Lower end of engine done in Mooresville (trade on Pontiac tripower restoration) - 9000 max (NOT with hydraulic cam).
Aluminum flywheel
RA III aluminum headers (repro)
Carter 850 CFM competition TQ (ran about as well with the 800, but the 800 had an electric choke, the 850 has a manual choke)

Diet (in addition to the aluminum engine pieces)

Bumpers cut, and rewelded to bring into body, shocks and stiffeners removed
Snowflake Pontiac aluminum wheels
Late 1970's Bonneville aluminum rear drums
Aluminum H2O pump
Aluminum alternator bracket
Aluminum B/W trans with FIA gearset

That is all I remember off the top of my head.

Runs pretty good

The worst part of the car is it was originally painted BSG and as it was built as a "street sleeper" I retained the original BSG color.

Maybe someone with a desktop dyno will tell me how much power it makes. Hydraulic cam redline 6400.

Jon.

[chicagoland]

"BSG"? Is it one of the green paints?

[carbking]

Originally Posted by chicagoland

"BSG"? Is it one of the green paints?

B = Baby
G = Green

You can fill in the S

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/GTO_1974_hood.jpg

Jon.