[gtohurstjudge]

It is not "my" club. I am but one of 8500 members and a happy one
I might add. This is supposed to be an adult discussion about POCI.
I don't happen to share your view about the club and so now I'm an arrogant prick!
I'm sure any club would love to have you as a member.

[Andre]

Easy fellows. No reason to take on personal attacks. The fact of the matter is we all have different opinions. All of these clubs have a limited lifespan, and the lifespan gets shorter when there is not an influx of new blood. It doesn't matter how good a club is or isn't. You can even take a quick overview of this site. The most people that were ever on here at one time was back in March 2012. I suspect that number is going to last a long time or forever. I may be misquoting, but once upon a time POCI had over 13,000 members. Likewise with GTOAA. Many chapters have folded in the last 10 years. We can come back to this post 10 years from now and see who is still left.

[gtohurstjudge]

Originally Posted by Andre

Easy fellows. No reason to take on personal attacks. The fact of the matter is we all have different opinions. All of these clubs have a limited lifespan, and the lifespan gets shorter when there is not an influx of new blood. It doesn't matter how good a club is or isn't. You can even take a quick overview of this site. The most people that were ever on here at one time was back in March 2012. I suspect that number is going to last a long time or forever. I may be misquoting, but once upon a time POCI had over 13,000 members. Likewise with GTOAA. Many chapters have folded in the last 10 years. We can come back to this post 10 years from now and see who is still left.

Well said! I think if you check the subscription rate of HPP I think you will find
it peaked quite some time ago. Pontiac is now in the same boat as Studebaker, so naturally
POCI is going to shrink. It is not necessarily shrinking because they are doing a lousy job of running the club. Honestly, short of improving their website to make it more user friendly
I don't know what anyone expects them to do to improve things. Perhaps the Pontiac hobby
just sucks in general if people dislike POCI so much! As far as burnout goes, you can add me to the list as well. Currently I am more interested in my 65 Riviera, 70 Chevelle and new
Mustang than I am my Pontiacs. It's hard to stay enthused about something to the same
level for 35 years......it is against human nature.

[Engine-Ear]

I have been genuinely absorbing the words and emotions shared by you guys and it gives me a lot to consider.

[lfdsteve]

Originally Posted by gtohurstjudge

Well said! I think if you check the subscription rate of HPP I think you will find
it peaked quite some time ago. Pontiac is now in the same boat as Studebaker, so naturally
POCI is going to shrink. It is not necessarily shrinking because they are doing a lousy job of running the club. Honestly, short of improving their website to make it more user friendly
I don't know what anyone expects them to do to improve things. Perhaps the Pontiac hobby
just sucks in general if people dislike POCI so much! As far as burnout goes, you can add me to the list as well. Currently I am more interested in my 65 Riviera, 70 Chevelle and new
Mustang than I am my Pontiacs. It's hard to stay enthused about something to the same
level for 35 years......it is against human nature.

Yep you don't rate because I have a Rivy, a Chevelle and a mustang. Let them eat cake ye pheasants because I am the Mac daddy and you drive but a poncho. How do I join?

Steve

[Formulabruce]

ON running a business, or car club, or a "model train" club, or anything, a good rule I always used to tell people who came to me with complaints..
DO NOT Complain unless you are able, AT the time, to provide a "reasonable" Solution.
Complaints are EASY...most that complain are unwilling to lift a finger to fix a problem, and this gets more common with age.
There are hundreds of GTO's, Bird, Lemans Bonneys, etc not the far from me, and the owners dont want drama, and they typically dont want to do a thing to help a club either, and that includes running a cruise night.
This is why short "cruise in car shows" seem to work, and why "Rolling car shows" seem to work. You are NOT bored while driving your Pontiac past a few Video cameras and looking at the scenery.
Solutions are out there, GREAT internet presence is a great start. Nothing gets people excited more than seeing their own cars in print or on the net. ( take a look at a thread I started in the Lobby on something new for HPP)
Lastly, 35 year old complaints need to be taken back to the Complainers, and ask THEM for Ideas on solutions. Even the Pontiac Indians elected new "blood" on occasion...

[65 Cat 2+2]

Really...name calling? More a commentary on your character than anything else.

[Jerry H.]

Originally Posted by Engine-Ear

Man, I have to say, the feedback has been GREAT.

Bunkie Knudsen said you can sell a young man's car to an old man, but you can't sell an old man's car to a young man. ...is there something in there regarding club membership?

Just wondering. Thoughts?

I've read every post in this thread with great interest. I first joined POCI in 1981. I've attended maybe 10 conventions. I had planned to attend this past year's CoVention, but last minute problems kept me away. The last convention I attended was 2009 in Dayton. As someone else posted about, the 1984 Convention in Atlanta busted up our Atlanta Chapter. Shortly after I founded the Southeastern GTO Association, still alive today and affiliated with GTOAA.

In 1981 I really didn't care about ANY old vehicles prior to 1955. I would casually look them over at a show or cruise and maybe admire the workmanship, but honestly if you gave me one it would go up for sale the next day. At almost 60 years old, I'm still that way today. And really you have to get up until the 61 model year to really get my interest. I'm a pure musclecar guy, but I understand that have feature some of the newer models to appeal to the younger guys. But you pick a a Smoke Signals, and more than likely it will feature a 55 or older car. If that doesn't appeal to me at 60, is it going to appeal to the 30 year old? I don't think so.

I've not been privy to any of the 'politics' as some have called it; everyone with the club I've ever had any dealings with has been fine. Anything can be tweaked from time to time, but I think the declining memebership is simply a sign of our times. An updated website, featuring cars in the Smoke Signals that would appeal more to the younger guys, and more Pontiac racing content may help somewhat.

[higgenslake]

Any club that would have me as a member I wouldn't want to join.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by higgenslake

Any club that would have me as a member I wouldn't want to join.

LOL! Seriously - I did.

K

[Andre]

Got my Smoke Signals yesterday and read it. Several pages of race cars and race car coverage, and several pages of show winners. Several pages of retailers ads, and 13 chapters weighed in on the chapter report section. Two were specialty chapters. There has definitely been more and more attention paid to the racing portion of the hobby.

[Deadhead]

Originally Posted by gtohurstjudge

there is going to be politics involved.

......all of the complaints in this thread are thirty five years
old.

there are people above you in rank that have
to make decisions, a lot of which you probably won't agree with.

For me, this is the problem. Stipulating that there must be politics involved and that there are "people above you in rank". That is not the case. This is not a military organization. We are not going into battle. There may be those who make decisions and take action on behalf of the club, but they are not ABOVE any of the other members. The predisposition to assuming that members will not like what is decided is also unnecessary. If this were the case then there would be no organizations devoid of discontent. While I am fully aware that some people can not be satisfied, I refuse to believe that is a given for the majority.

The fact that the problems have existed for 35 years is what I would like to see addressed.

[Helge71]

As the I in POCI stands for International i would also like to chime in... I am a member since several years and will have to renew my membership now...However, I am seriously contemplating if I am really going to do so.

Being an international member the only really benefit is the monthly Smoke Signals - I enjoy having a real paper magazine to read and always find something interesting in it (in addition to the classifieds and lots of interesting vendor ads/adresses) and think that Don Keefe is doing a great job. However the quite long delay in overseas delivery is sometimes a bit annoying and my personal feeling is that the content has drifted away a bit from the (for me) very interesting tech tips and restauration stories/tips to more show coverage and show car descriptions. As it is at least very difficult for me to attend any of the POCI shows, my personal interest in a lot of show coverage is only limited. Therefore I can not really see that the "International" part of POCI offers that much benefit or interesting topic.

One of the major problems (that has already been mentioned repeatedly in this thread) is the really quite horrible and more or less dead website/forum. Especially from outside the US the internet is the easiest (only?) reasonable way to keep in touch with the club, it's memebers and join maybe some online activities. In the current situation I have contact with the POCI only once a month through the Smoke Signals, whereas I frequent the PY forum on an almost daily basis and there is always something interesting new to read or learn. So I feel much more connected to the PY than to the POCI - and the PY is even for free...

As for the GMC part - i also own an old GMC (at least with a Pontiac motor) and can not say that i ever found something in POCI or Smoke Signals that was of any help or interest to me GMC-wise. My GMC questions also get answered here at PY...

I know that the interest in Pontiacs is truly international and I know several people here in Germany and a lot in Sweden who own really great cars (more fullsize than GTOs...). However, all these people I met either on the PY forum or on another international forum for classic hot rods (and only a few at local meetings) - none so far via any POCI connections.

So maybe it might really be an idea worthwile contemplating for POCI to join up in some way with an active and established internet forum like PY - it would probably be much easier than getting some life in the so called POCI forum and would most probably give a more active and alive feeling to the whole club with more member interaction - and also attract some younger members (i am 42 - not that young anymore but still quite at home online).

Helge

[PMD1969]

The disturbing reality is that there are countless numbers of Pontiac owners out there that are reluctant to join POCI (or have quit) for the reasons listed. I personally have met/know quite a few that are Pontiac fanatics (more than 20 Pontiacs!) that will not join.

I really like Formulabruce's ideas and would quickly side in implementation. Smoke Signals is awesome but to keep the POCI thriving the website and internet/social media desperately need to be updated and maintained. I am sure there are plenty of experienced and savvy folks that would assist in getting it up to speed.

It appears that the answers are obvious.

[gtohurstjudge]

OK, you guys have convinced me that POCI sucks because they don't cowtow
to my every need and whim. I'm submitting my resignation today. Also, I don't get along
with one of my neighbors down the block so I'm putting my house up for sale as soon as
I can get a realtor on the phone. Also, the Dallas Cowboys lost last Sunday so I'll be damned
if I'm going to be a Cowboy fan anymore.....I'm tuning out! Thanks to everyone for helping
me see the light! I feel better already!

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by gtohurstjudge

OK, you guys have convinced me that POCI sucks because they don't cowtow to my every need and whim. I'm submitting my resignation today.

Your attitude sucks. I was on the fence about the organization before but if this is how the people in charge feel and are willing to go out in public with this attitude, well I say I'm glad I never bothered wasting my time again.

[GpFreak]

Originally Posted by Deadhead

For me, this is the problem. Stipulating that there must be politics involved and that there are "people above you in rank". That is not the case. This is not a military organization. We are not going into battle. There may be those who make decisions and take action on behalf of the club, but they are not ABOVE any of the other members. The predisposition to assuming that members will not like what is decided is also unnecessary. If this were the case then there would be no organizations devoid of discontent. While I am fully aware that some people can not be satisfied, I refuse to believe that is a given for the majority.

The fact that the problems have existed for 35 years is what I would like to see addressed.

I see what your problem is, it's that country you live in... the USSA, where is that anyway?

[Engine-Ear]

Keyboard Ambiguity Alert!
Keyboard Ambiguity Alert!
Keyboard Ambiguity Alert!

...nothing can get a discussion more derailed than the original-intent-stripping capability of a KEYBOARD.

Everyone is adding a substantive contribution to this; also, please keep the spirit of the original post in mind.

...And if I am correctly detecting it, stop the back-biting and petty bickering, OK?

[PMD1969]

Originally Posted by gtohurstjudge

OK, you guys have convinced me that POCI sucks because they don't cowtow
to my every need and whim. I'm submitting my resignation today. Also, I don't get along
with one of my neighbors down the block so I'm putting my house up for sale as soon as
I can get a realtor on the phone. Also, the Dallas Cowboys lost last Sunday so I'll be damned
if I'm going to be a Cowboy fan anymore.....I'm tuning out! Thanks to everyone for helping
me see the light! I feel better already!

I can agree and understand trading in the CowGirls for a better team after that shalacking

[gtohurstjudge]

Originally Posted by Ben M.

Your attitude sucks. I was on the fence about the organization before but if this is how the people in charge feel and are willing to go out in public with this attitude, well I say I'm glad I never bothered wasting my time again.

Where did you get the notion that I speak for those in charge......I'm just a simple
peon POCI member........excuse me ex member! Folks the membership in POCI is now 8499.
What a relief to get out of that horrible excuse for a club. Thanks to all for explaining to me
that a club is lousy when it doesn't entertain me 24/7. Again, thanks for setting me straight!