[Racer81x]

Originally Posted by Don Keefe

As far as the mailed-in ads go, they do take a little longer to get in and if the rules are not adhered to, such as no prices given, they do not go in. Simple as that. I tell people to call in their ads rather than send them in to avoid problems.

If there is a problem with a classified ad, all that needs to be done is to call me at 585-489-9826 and I will take care of the problems while they are on the phone.

Thanks for the info.
Unfortunatlly he is no longer a member.
He had been a member for around 30 years and had sent in adds throughout the years and always had everything priced, he just got a little agitated when after 2 or 3 adds had been sent in about a year and a half time frame and none had got published, and after talking to several friends and a couple others that expierenced the same problem.

He thought the club was getting a little to cliqueish,(several others that we have talked to thought the same thing) and espically after going to the bowling green meet and seeing and hearing some things he let his membership go and dosen't care to go back.

He had gone to over 15 national meets and always vended, and ocasionally showed a car, he was content and happy with the club untill the last 4 or 5 years.

[2manyponchos]

Has anyone else that submitted their information/application/resume to run for the POCI Board been notified of acceptance? I was notified today that I did not receive enough votes from the "committee" to be a candidate.

Hopefully the other PY'ers that through their name in the hat were accepted and I look forward to voting for you in the election.

Lost to 2 incumbents in 2012 by single digits my first time running and now not approved by the committee. Maybe I should take the hint. Guess I should focus my efforts elsewhere in the hobby. In the meantime, I'll keep doing what I'm doing.

Good luck to all that have been accepted! Respectfully, Doug Pulskamp.

[Deadhead]

I received my declination letter from the Board today. I personally love it. It confirms all the things that this thread said.

"We would like to thank you for your interest in running for the POCI Board of Directors. You were not selected this time around due to your relative standing with the other applicants.

If you continue to be interested in running for the board it might be to your benefit to gain some additional, and more direct, background in the functions of the board. The best way to obtain this information would be to attend the annual board meeting(s). All POCI members are welcome to attend the board meetings. Additionally, you may wish to contact POCI President Merle Green and volunteer to be appointed to one of the committees. Board membership is not required to serve on a board committee.

You mentioned that you have not attended POCI conventions and indicated that you have not done so because, “…they have been held in boring located in dead cities like Dayton, OH. These are not vibrant thriving cities and are evidence of the problem POCI has with making itself exciting and attractive.”

POCI conventions are held (1) in areas were we have a chapter that is willing to take on the task of hosting a convention, and (2) in cities in which affordable venues can be obtained. POCI conventions are, for many, family vacations and must be held in locations that are affordable. The cost of a venue in a highly desirable city may be out of reach for many, perhaps most, of our members.

Attempting to balance the needs of the members, encouraging chapters to host conventions and keeping cost affordable are just a few of the functions of the board. As for there being no chapters in your area, you may wish to consider starting a chapter in your area. We also have specialty chapters. If there are none that meet your particular interest you may wish to consider starting one that does meet your special interest.

Thanks again for your interest in running and for your interest in POCI. We hope you will continue to maintain your interest and that you will consider running for nomination again in the future.

Sincerely,

Don Bougher, Chair
POCI Board of Directors Nominating Committee"

[2manyponchos]

Well, looks like I'm not alone!

[2manyponchos]

Gotta disagree with you on one thing though Bruce...the Greene County area of Dayton where the 2013 show was held is far from dead! Pretty thriving place where everytime I go there I find something new and different to do. I might be a little biased though, haveing been one of the chairmen for the 2013 show. My letter was not as detailed as yours...just stated that I basically did not receive enough votes and should consider running again in the future.

[stevep]

Doug Klein and I received a few of those letters before we finally got elected to the board and we both actually became president. You just have to keep throwing your name in the ring.

[Sidponcho]

I recall showing up at a convention in MA with my 69 Firebird. The dude at the gate immediatley commented that my wheels were not correct (because I couldn't afford RallyII's at the time). Otherwise, my Firebird was beautiful (in my opinion). I was then sent to the back of the hotel where my Firebird could spend some quality time with the dumpsters and cooks on cigarette breaks. Never again.

[Jeff Hamlin]

I’ve been a member since the 80’s and focus on the idea of the club’s Preservation of Oakland and Pontiac history which is what keeps me aboard. I’ve never gotten caught up in politics and/or cliques; and could care less what one feels about a particular Pontiac I may be driving.
I’ve always been one to wade through the BS and gravitate to what I enjoy rather than allow one part of a situation to become my only focus and prohibit me taking part in an otherwise enjoyable club/hobby.
The changes I’ve seen clearly seem to have been a necessity, and as with any large organization, there will always be some who feel it’s not enough or one-sided. This is something I’ve dealt with in a club of 70; so I can only imagine what our directors hear and deal with.
POCI is an ever evolving club and I look forward to change. I enjoy the NEW look and style of our newsletter. It has become a vital tool and I like reading it. I know the newer/late model Pontiacs always seem to get met with some resistance, but they are the future of this club so I welcome them as with anything that will keep this club moving forward.
I would only suggest we put a bit more emphasis on the historic entities this club has access to before they are gone.
i.e. pre-war Oaklands & Pontiacs. I would like to see a segment that captures these rarely seen cars. When I first joined the Pontiac Circle,
My first intent was to always discover, visit, and examine the old iron at any show local or otherwise.
As years passed it just becomes the normal course of evolution that we see less and less of these treasures. It would be great if we could pursue some of these with articles, photos, etc on the cars and the owners of restored and un-restored (survivors). Making contact with these and allowing them to be shared with our members is something I’m sure wouldn't be easy but very much of interest. I know it has been stated if you send it in we would love to show it but possibly reaching out now and then for a special feature may bear some fruit?

Keep up the Great work and I look forward to what POCI has in store for the new-year.

[Deadhead]

Well, I just think that there is a lot of misguided thinking here if the organization wants to grow. Dayton is a fine city, but I am talking degree here. To attract people you have to provide things that are exciting and appeal to those who are not already members.

Here is my response to the letter. I will remain a member, but I doubt seriously that I will have the stamina to make further efforts to revitalize the organization.

Don,

I am very pleased with your decision not to include me on the POCI board. It is not about me. It is about the future of the Pontiac hobby.

POCI's emphasis on the "affordable" is a big part of the issue. Lasting memories and repeat customers are not built on the cheap. People do not go on family vacations that they remember forever to places that are cheap. They go to Disney World, Vegas, Lake Tahoe, San Francisco, Hilton Head, Vail etc. Places cost more because they are worth it. Supply and demand you know. People do what they have to do to have these great experiences. I doubt seriously you are going to find much enthusiasm for Witchita, KS. That is not a destination that typically inspires visions of lasting memories. Not to mention that your argument of the board deciding to go where the members are is a perfect example of why these types of places are better. Lots of members are concentrated in popular destinations. Perhaps Detroit or Pontiac Michigan would have been a good idea for the GTO 50th anniversary? This is not rocket science. You want more members? You provide something attractive and or useful. Not just to existing members but to potential members. Think about how incongruous your argument is. People spend tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of dollars to restore and maintain these cars, and then they don't have the money to spend on a vacation in a great venue? That makes no sense. If you want to be cheap great. But do not relegate the rest of us to that. Please. I do not waste time on the cheap and going to places that are not excellent. Neither do the vast majority of other families going on vacation.

My contribution to the Pontiac hobby is daily helping people repair and restore their cars with my knowledge. I take the time to share the process of all of the different areas of restoration I have learned. I do this daily. I do not simply show up at a convention once a year to postulate on the virtues of Pontiac and what my shiny car looks like since last convention. It is not all about the convention. Because of modern technology we are able to gather and share information continuously. POCI is failing big time in this area. They are not helping people actually work on their cars and stay enthusiastic daily to a great degree - or at all as far as I can see at the moment. Tech is seriously lacking. How many tech articles have been in Smoke Signals in the last year? How many helpful replies to tech inquiries on the POCI web site? It would bring people back again and again if they saw it as a source for help in their restoration and maintenance. If people need affordable as you claim, then helping them to do more on their cars themselves would serve that need and make it so they could better afford to travel to the convention.

While many may not agree with these ideas, I personally feel strongly about them and would not spend my time pounding the table on it if it was not important to me.

Best of luck going forward. I hope you are able to find success clinging to the old ways.

[bird72]

Seems ODD that someone would have to attend Board Meetings (air fare, room rent, food, etc) so one might be considered to be voted on it? In the age of electronics, and cheap home video conference hook ups for home PC's, this is an old fashioned kinda need. With their cash flow, the board meetings should be video and attend from far away. Sorry if this is possible and I am unaware, but from their sad dated website, I would be surprised. Just my two bits. It is EXACLTY that kind of vibe that has sent me away every time I have looked into the club. Big into rules, which is part of the problem. When rules trump human apsects, people will be turned off. I think all the answers POCI needs are in this thread already. Good luck to them. Let's revisit this situation in 2 years and see their numbers, which will be "bottom line" on change potential. This is sad, because this is EXACTLY the scale organization which will greatly help this Poncho hobby. I don't feel the energy needed, I feel obstructionist ego stuff. I still plan on joining, so I can see for real what it is beneficial for and help support, and if it ain't my thing, then I won't renew. It's all good and it's all choice.

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by Deadhead

Well, I just think that there is a lot of misguided thinking here if the organization wants to grow. Dayton is a fine city, but I am talking degree here. To attract people you have to provide things that are exciting and appeal to those who are not already members.

Here is my response to the letter. I will remain a member, but I doubt seriously that I will have the stamina to make further efforts to revitalize the organization.

Don,

I am very pleased with your decision not to include me on the POCI board. It is not about me. It is about the future of the Pontiac hobby.

POCI's emphasis on the "affordable" is a big part of the issue. Lasting memories and repeat customers are not built on the cheap. People do not go on family vacations that they remember forever to places that are cheap. They go to Disney World, Vegas, Lake Tahoe, San Francisco, Hilton Head, Vail etc. Places cost more because they are worth it. Supply and demand you know. People do what they have to do to have these great experiences. I doubt seriously you are going to find much enthusiasm for Witchita, KS. That is not a destination that typically inspires visions of lasting memories. Not to mention that your argument of the board deciding to go where the members are is a perfect example of why these types of places are better. Lots of members are concentrated in popular destinations. Perhaps Detroit or Pontiac Michigan would have been a good idea for the GTO 50th anniversary? This is not rocket science. You want more members? You provide something attractive and or useful. Not just to existing members but to potential members. Think about how incongruous your argument is. People spend tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of dollars to restore and maintain these cars, and then they don't have the money to spend on a vacation in a great venue? That makes no sense. If you want to be cheap great. But do not relegate the rest of us to that. Please. I do not waste time on the cheap and going to places that are not excellent. Neither do the vast majority of other families going on vacation.

My contribution to the Pontiac hobby is daily helping people repair and restore their cars with my knowledge. I take the time to share the process of all of the different areas of restoration I have learned. I do this daily. I do not simply show up at a convention once a year to postulate on the virtues of Pontiac and what my shiny car looks like since last convention. It is not all about the convention. Because of modern technology we are able to gather and share information continuously. POCI is failing big time in this area. They are not helping people actually work on their cars and stay enthusiastic daily to a great degree - or at all as far as I can see at the moment. Tech is seriously lacking. How many tech articles have been in Smoke Signals in the last year? How many helpful replies to tech inquiries on the POCI web site? It would bring people back again and again if they saw it as a source for help in their restoration and maintenance. If people need affordable as you claim, then helping them to do more on their cars themselves would serve that need and make it so they could better afford to travel to the convention.

While many may not agree with these ideas, I personally feel strongly about them and would not spend my time pounding the table on it if it was not important to me.

Best of luck going forward. I hope you are able to find success clinging to the old ways.

i

I know I m going to get slammed for this but here goes.

You put your name out there wanting to be considered for a board position. Yet you are not involved with the club at any level? That's he first area of concern. If you haven't done the time to play an active role within the club why in the world would they automatically give a high ranking position to someone who knows nothing about the workings of the organization?

Next. The quote they gave you in the decline letter states that you don't like the venue they choose to hold the convention each year which is what I guess you put in your letter asking for consideration. I may be wrongs about this but that's not something hays going to entice the committee to add you to the list. It's negative and the reasons they hold the conventions in the cities they do we're correctly told to you in the their response.

Last, and not certainly least. When they decline what I would consider an awful attempt to get an approval from the committee, you write this letter back slamming them all over the place.

I don't know you other than your posts here on PY, but putting myself in the shoes of any member of the committee says that you are not a good candidate and the decision was correctly made.

You may be a good guy, know quite a bit about the hobby in general and might run rings around me in overall knowledge about how to rebuild a motor, but I think your attempt to get involved was very self serving.

JMO.

Paul Weinstein
non POCI member
Very active Cruisin' Tiger GTO Club member
Co-Chair 2014 Indian Uprising All Pontiac Weekend

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by bird72

Seems ODD that someone would have to attend Board Meetings (air fare, room rent, food, etc) so one might be considered to be voted on it? In the age of electronics, and cheap home video conference hook ups for home PC's, this is an old fashioned kinda need. With their cash flow, the board meetings should be video and attend from far away. Sorry if this is possible and I am unaware, but from their sad dated website, I would be surprised. Just my two bits. It is EXACLTY that kind of vibe that has sent me away every time I have looked into the club. Big into rules, which is part of the problem. When rules trump human apsects, people will be turned off. I think all the answers POCI needs are in this thread already. Good luck to them. Let's revisit this situation in 2 years and see their numbers, which will be "bottom line" on change potential. This is sad, because this is EXACTLY the scale organization which will greatly help this Poncho hobby. I don't feel the energy needed, I feel obstructionist ego stuff. I still plan on joining, so I can see for real what it is beneficial for and help support, and if it ain't my thing, then I won't renew. It's all good and it's all choice.

POCI, like all car clubs is a voluntary organization. You donate your time to help run the club. There are plenty of jobs available to volunteer your time no matter where you live. You don't need to fly out to meetings.

One phone call to Paul at the POCI office will get the ball rolling. Trust me Paul and his wife could use some help I'm sure.

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by Sidponcho

I recall showing up at a convention in MA with my 69 Firebird. The dude at the gate immediatley commented that my wheels were not correct (because I couldn't afford RallyII's at the time). Otherwise, my Firebird was beautiful (in my opinion). I was then sent to the back of the hotel where my Firebird could spend some quality time with the dumpsters and cooks on cigarette breaks. Never again.

I've seen this first hand with a few shows around here. Then to top it all off, the clubs wonder why no one new is signing up.

Where in New England are you? There are some nice family type shows here on the MA/NH seacoast.

[Engine-Ear]

>SIGH< well I, too, was declined.

This may sound weird, but I am very disappointed to read that news. I am equally disappointed that that neither Doug nor Bruce were considered for a spot on the ballot for their regional BOD position.

Well, I tried. Ever since the crash, I go-with-the-flow more than ever. The flow is telling me to focus my time and talent elsewhere and I will. I will also continue to be a POCI member and I hold no grudge with the club's leadership about their decision to decline my request for a spot on the ballot.

Respectfully,

~Matt Planning
POCI 24542

[2manyponchos]

WOW! Sorry to hear that Matt. After Bruce and I were shut out, thought there was hope that a level headed stand up individual such as yourself would be a shoe in. Guess I was wrong again. Wonder if anyone under the age of 50 was accepted? Sorry to sound like an arrogant ass, but as I get older, learning to call a spade a spade.

[MPKind]

Yeah Right. I give you guys kudos for trying to make a difference in a positive light. No matter how much you've done in the past with POCI, to me, it's what you bring to the table at PRESENT time. If you're a contributor to the car hobby i.e. go to shows, cruises, race, share knowledge via forums like PY, and have a genuine enthusiasm to promote and GROW a car club, what more do you need? Am I being to simplistic here? You have to start somewhere, and in a car club like POCI that from all appearances seems to be struggling, why wouldn't you take some risks and see if some new ideas stick?

Now on to venues for Nationals. I've attended one (Red Wing, MN 2001). In fact I designed and physically laid out the show field to maximize car placement. So I've put in some time to POCI in the past. As for past and future locations, I'd have to agree, that some cities aren't "sexy" enough to attract more than the hard core POCI members that go every year. I know guys that travel to Ohio every year to the Mopar Nats, and have a great time, it's a huge event, and guess what? It's at the same place every year! They have lodging, the region becomes familiar, and they get to race too. POCI should just get over the idea of trying to give each chapter a shot at hosting a national and just do it themselves. Smaller regional shows that combine a few adjacent chapters could be held within region say like the south east or mid west. I've probably stepped on some toes, but so be it, I've experienced the big hand of POCI politics and I didn't think it was worth my time and energy to give a damn.

Matt

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by MPKind

If you're a contributor to the car hobby i.e. go to shows, cruises, race, share knowledge via forums like PY, and have a genuine enthusiasm to promote and GROW a car club, what more do you need? Am I being to simplistic here?

You aren't being too simplistic. I share what little knowledge I have here and other places on the internet and help anyone locally who wants to repair their car or learn how to make their car perform better. I don't need anything else, much less validation from a group of people who for all practical purposes aren't interested in someone like me anyways because I'm west of the Rockies and too young to have been around for the glory days. I wish them well, no ill feelings whatsoever, it's just obviously not the place for me.

[MPKind]

I know what you mean about not living during the "glory days". It's fun to hear about the cars and the long extinct dragstrips, but as time goes by these "baby boomer" era car guys are decreasing in numbers every year. The writing is on the wall, car clubs WILL become extinct like old dragstrips unless they are properly promoted and stay interesting. There has to be a continuous influx of younger members that are included and not alienated. Some clubs may consolidate, some will become very small but hang on. I doubt POCI will go away, it is quite large geographically, but it's possible that local chapters will dry up over time.

With newer "spontaneous" events like "Indian Uprising" and regional BOP events,POCI is getting moved out of the spotlight, and outdone by participation. Now they're joining ranks with the GTO club to have the "co-vention". Why now? I think it's obvious. I think eventually the local POCI club could do well by having a regional BOP events. I don't have all the answers, I hope I'm provocative enough to get others to think about and refine my thoughts.

[bird72]

I second the BOP angle for shows and promotion. A big BOP show would, even to most Poncho people, be a very fun and interesting show. And 3X odds of drawing newcomers or casual car people in. I've seen enough Chevies for sure, but never tire of 442's, GSX, and all the other cool B & O's!

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by Engine-Ear

>SIGH< well I, too, was declined.

This may sound weird, but I am very disappointed to read that news. I am equally disappointed that that neither Doug nor Bruce were considered for a spot on the ballot for their regional BOD position.

Well, I tried. Ever since the crash, I go-with-the-flow more than ever. The flow is telling me to focus my time and talent elsewhere and I will. I will also continue to be a POCI member and I hold no grudge with the club's leadership about their decision to decline my request for a spot on the ballot.

Respectfully,

~Matt Planning
POCI 24542

I am surprised they didn't vote you in Matt.

We've never met, but I have learned more than a few "Darksider" and other Pontiac tidbits from your posts here on PY over the years. My impression, and opinion, of you is that of a die-hard Pontiac enthusiast and that you'd have been a real asset to the POCI board.

Concur with your decision to now focus your time and talent elsewhere. Their loss IMO.