[Kevin E]

Hi, I am looking at buying a 69 GP SJ. The guy says its a 428. How can I verify and find
out if its the 370hp or 390? Everything looks
stock under the hood except chrome valve covers. Owner says its been parked for years
and mileage is original(50,400). Car is dark blue with dark blue vinyl.Extremely straight body but has some rust under vinyl and around fenders. Not rusted through though.Has mags and I think they said Hurst on them.Were these an option or aftermarket?
I have tons of questions as I am new to classic cars.Car runs smooth. He's asking 2500. for car. Hows that seem for price?
Thanks for any and all replies, Kevin.

[Kevin E]

Hi, I am looking at buying a 69 GP SJ. The guy says its a 428. How can I verify and find
out if its the 370hp or 390? Everything looks
stock under the hood except chrome valve covers. Owner says its been parked for years
and mileage is original(50,400). Car is dark blue with dark blue vinyl.Extremely straight body but has some rust under vinyl and around fenders. Not rusted through though.Has mags and I think they said Hurst on them.Were these an option or aftermarket?
I have tons of questions as I am new to classic cars.Car runs smooth. He's asking 2500. for car. Hows that seem for price?
Thanks for any and all replies, Kevin.

[GP-K]

Kevin,

The chrome valve covers would have been stock on either 428 engine. All '69 SJs came with the 428 engine. The 390 version of the 428 was known as the 428 HO, and would have very long cast exhaust manifolds (looks almost like a cast header), and the engine code will be XG if the car is an automatic, and WL if it is a manual transmission car. Also on the HO, the oil filter will be turned about 30 degrees and the bottom of the filter will be facing the rear of the car instead of pointing almost straight down.

The 370 hp 428s had the following engine codes: WF (manual) XF (automatic). That engine will have the standard "log" style cast iron exhaust manifolds.

If the car has Hurst "mags", that would be a desirable aftermarket add-on, but they were not an option from either the dealer or factory. As an SJ, The car would have come from the factory with the standard Pontiac rally II wheels, with chrome trim rings and black center caps.

I don't have an old cars guide in front of me, but 2500 for an SJ with the 370 hp engine in fair condition (condition 3) sounds ok. Not a bargain, but definitely not a rip-off. Some condition 2 SJs have gone for more than 3 times that amount. Even good condition 400 powered model Js have gone for more than that.

The 428 is a really good engine, and if it is the HO, the car is really undervalued. If it is the "normal" 428, it is "just" a good buy. If it has a factory installed manual transmission, it is worth a bundle of $.

The rust under the vinyl top will be a real pain, and the rust around the fenders, while typical, can be difficult to fix. (It would not deter me though) You will want to check the trunk floor and deck lid very carefully.

If you do buy the car, make sure you buy a Pontiac Factory 1969 shop manual, and '69 Fisher body shop manual. A number of the Pontiac restoration parts suppliers have reproduced manuals in stock, and I would highly recommend obtaining and using one. Otherwise, with something like a Chiltons, or going without any reference it is a nearly complete guessing game.

Good luck,

K.

[Kevin E]

K, thanks for the info. The car is an automatic. Where are the codes for the engine found? Kevin.

[pontiwrek]

Kevin, the engine codes should be on the front of the left side of the motor block just underneath the head. If it has air you might not be able to see them very well but bring along a flashlight, some cleaner and a rag and maybe a long flat tip screwdriver to help remove the crud!!Dont push hard enough to damage the digits, you just want to remove the dirt not scratch the area. Good luck, it sounds like you may have found a keeper!

[GP-K]

Kevin,

Just to clarify what Pontiwrek said. The engine codes are on the front of the passenger side of the engine, just below the cylinder head, to the side of the timing cover. (technically, this is the right side of the engine, according to the shop manuals, since everything is "viewed" from the passenger compartment, and not from in front of the car looking back)

Good luck!

K.

[Kevin E]

Hello again, I just got the #s off the engine.They are 0398691 with XF below.
The trunk bottom is pretty rusty. I still
don't know what I'm going to do. Kevin

[GP-K]

Kevin,

I would not despair, the trunk floor is the same as the A body trunk floors, and reproduction sheet metal is available for that part. The fact that it is an SJ with its original engine makes it a worthwhile buy. I would buy it (if I had room for another car) in the price range you have suggested. Just be prepared for a "project"

good luck,

K.

[WDCreech]

XF is the 370 HP 428. Good score, I'd buy it.

------------------

Bill

[Kevin E]

Thanks for all the input.The guy has had it in the paper(in canada)for about 10 days.I talked to him today and he's still got it.He really wants the money I can tell. There has been a few lookers I guess. How hard are these cars to find.(69 SJ)I'm kind of surprised with the muscle car thing happening that these cars aren't more popular.I also recently bought 68 Charger(383 4 bbl) and 69 442(400). If I get the Pontiac I'll have to see which one is fastest. I'm sure all you Pontiac guys would have an objective opinion.


Kevin

[Kevin E]

I just received the build sheet for the 69GPSJ that I'm looking at.Is the safe-t-track(opt361)posi.? How about WHL-dsc-wire(opt501)? Is cruise control fairly common?Here's the whole list svt,361,421,424,453,501,532,551,578,324,632,351,38 8,422,441,492,504,541,564,582,631,752.

Kevin

[GP-K]

Kevin,

The 361 option code (safe t track) is indeed positraction, Whl-dsc-wire is option 453, and would be wire wheel covers. option 501 is power steering. Now, down the list:
421 is the passenger visor vanity mirror, 424 is the outside remote control mirror (drivers side),
453 is the wire wheel covers,
501 is power steering,
532 is tinted glass -windshield only,
551 is power windows,
578 is the reclining passenger seat,
324 is the SJ option group which includes the 428 engine, level control, lamp group, rally cluster, and clock.,
632 is the rear floor mats,
351 is Turbohydramatic (M40) transmission,
388 is the AM/FM Stereo radio (a very desirable option if still in the car)
422 is the visor vanity mirror, drivers side,
441 is Cruise control (not common for 1969, a little more common for GP's, since they were a sport-luxury model
492 is power deck lid release
504 is tilt wheel
541 is power door locks
564 is power driver's seat (another very desirable option)
582 is A/C
631 is front floor mats
752 is ?????, are you sure it is not 732? If it is 732 it is the trunk mat.

I'd say the car is loaded.

The Wire wheel cover option explains the Hurst wheels.

Good luck,

K.

[Kevin E]

Thanks for the response. The 752 option is antifreeze.So the Hurst wheels were an available option? Have you seen alot of these cars? Very many this loaded? I'm still loking for reasons to buy it.


Thanks again,Kevin.

[Bob Kazian]

Kevin,
If the '69 GP truly does have Hurst Wheels on the car and if they are complete and in good shape, DO NOT BUY IT! I repeat...
DO NOT BUY IT! Run as fast as you can away from this sale. This guy is trying to sell you a car with inferior aftermarket wheels that are of questionable value.

Instead, call me immediately and I will take over the negotiations by phone and I will arrange for transportation to get this car away from the seller.

Imagine the nerve of someone to try to sell you, an admittedly new to the Classic car scene buyer, a car with these aftermarket wheels. Keep looking for a '69 Grand Prix with the correct Rally II wheels.

Seriously, if they are truly Hurst wheels and if the wheels are complete, the car is a good buy.
Good luck!

Bob Kazian

['ol Pinion head]

GP-K, Was the 361 code HD Safe-T-Track a required option with the model SJ for 1969. I have owned close to a dozen of these '69 SJ's, many were close to being parts cars, but all had their original 3.23 4 pinion HD Safe-T-Track rearends... of course all were A/C cars due to southern climate. I guess what I should be asking is: Has anyone ever seen the buildsheet or disassembled an original 69 SJ OR 428 equipped Model J which DID NOT have the HD Safe-T-Track as an option?

------------------------
Never been banned here
He just hasn't got
around to it yet...

[GP-K]

Kevin,

Just a quick note, what I meant about the wire wheel cover/Hurst wheel comment was that it is clear that one of the early owners did not like the wire wheel covers (hubcaps), and replaced the steel wheels and hubcaps with the arguably more attractive and sporty Hurst wheels.

OPH, About the 3.23 4 pinion HD Posi's. Yes that is the same case I have run across, with most SJ's except for my car, which had the 3.36 4 pinion posi, wide ratio Muncie, and HO engine. The brake cones on every one I ran across were worn out. I (stupidly) replaced my original 4 pinion 10 bolt (case was broken) with a 12 bolt ch*vy rear. I should have just found another SJ, and replaced the posi carrier with a new Auburn. OH Well, I guess you learn by making mistakes [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Later.
Good luck with your decision Kevin.

K.

[Keith Vrabec]

OPH:
In regard to SJ's without posi rears, my nice original 69 SJ, 428/370 auto, ac car does not have posi.

My two HO 4 speed cars have 3.55 posis, both have M-20 boxes.

I do have a 3.36 posi in a parts car, but I think it will go into my 70 LeMans Sport sooner or later. I do plan to put a warm street 455 in front of it, with a Muncie wide box, so that should be a lot of fun...

One problem though is BRAKES....Going to start looking into aftermarket discs....But if price is too high, perhaps just factory front discs. Can't make them go too well without making them stop first....

Anyway, can't wait until I have all the outside work (Lawn, leaves, gutters, drainpipes, and all that other fun fall stuff...) done so I can get back into the GARAGE!!!!

[mike nixon]

kevin, just buy the g/p and quit looking for reasons not to. once you drive it you'll sell the dodge and never look back. these cars are a super blend of performance and luxury. buy the look of the options i'd say it's a good buy. mike

['ol Pinion head]

GP-K & Keith, Thanks for the input on the Safe-T-track issue. You guys (& Mike) are GREAT!

Kevin E, hope you bought the SJ...

[Ccass]

Hurst Wheels with rechromeable trim rings and center caps=$1500 MINIMUM! Do you think the GP is worth $1,000? I'd say its time to buy a Pontiac!