[bill ryder]

Anyone have an original car with or an original flasher for the 64 GTO? Should be 383636 but the part number may no be on the case. I need to see what it looks like. THANKS, "Bill"!

[bill ryder]

Come on Dick, RA-II 4-spd, BVZ, Keith: someone has a flasher they think is legit for 64. PLEASE. "Bill"!

[John V.]

Bill, I have (2) '64 fuse blocks, the original and a spare I collected because it was in better shape.

The flashers are Ideal Corp. No. 536 and NAPA No. 552 respectively. The Ideal one is marked "Heavy Duty FLasher" and is a taller unit.

Neither is original.

I have NO IDEA what the 383636 unit looked like, have yet to find one. But I suspect it was all but identical looking to the 383639 which seems to be pretty common. The 383636 may have been taller than a 383639, not sure.

The 383636 was eventually superseded by 383637.

Searching around, my guess is that the O.E. flashers were mainly Tung-Sol brand. However, they may have also made use of an alternate brand.

No doubt in my mind they were metal.

If Tung-Sol brand, most likely with stamped nos. on them including a date code.

The tops were embossed to read "MFD TO J590-61" around the word "SAE". Most likely this was true of the '64 flashers. They did not get marked "D.O.T.", apparently that came later.

There seems to be some debate as to whether and when the cans were painted. Earlier flashers may not have been painted and not clear when they started painting them, if by '64 or perhaps '65. Judging from what I think are NOS late '50s, early '60s Tung-Sol flashers, the cans look to have been plated, not painted.

If the O.E. flashers were painted cans and not plated, I can only guess this was done to shave a penny from the cost perhaps.

It occurs to me that the painted ones may have been the Service Replacements, especially if the painted ones cost MORE. But I am only guessing.

I am not at all certain but it is possible that the 383636 was Tung-Sol No. 536 and 383637 was Tung-Sol No. 552. I say this in part because it looks like at some point Tung-Sol offered a 552/536, meaning a single unit was suitable to replace either no. I'm guessing the specs were close enough between the two that it didn't matter.

We discovered with the '64 O.E. Horn Relay had two very different appearing types used in production, just depended on which supplier's unit was being installed in a given build, the Assembly Guide allowed for either.

That could also have been true of the Flasher. The alternate (if there was one permitted) was likely produced by Signal-Stat. Very different in appearance.

GM may have chosen to only offer the Tung-Sol brand for Service Replacement, doesn't mean they didn't install the alternate in production.

Posting this as food for thought while we all wait for somebody to say they have the original still in their '64 to study.

Me, I always have used turn signals, and have had to replace flashers. What we need is the guy who never bothered to use his signals, so the flasher never wore out!

[RAII 4-speed]

I still need to look at my car but I do have this flasher in the pile of NOS stuff that the original owner gave to me.
I think this would be correct.

[bill ryder]

Thanks John and RA-II. There are a couple 144's on ebay, and they are stating 2 bulb flasher. What about you, 382? Your ride is very original. It may have the original flasher? On the survivors, we are always looking at the interesting ares. NOT under the dash. "Bill"!

[John V.]

Could be, but Signal-Stat 144 is supposed to be equivalent to the Tung-Sol 224 and GM p/n 383638.

Signal-Stat 175 might be equivalent to the Tung-Sol 536 but I'm not sure.

Don't know if this adds anything to the discussion, but here is a page from the '63 GMC Truck MPC.

Shows several Tung-Sol Flashers for service, the only Signal-Stat is for a 4 way flasher.

http://www.gmpartswiki.com/getpage?pageid=25854

Notice the p/n for the Tung-Sol 536 is 2399685.

I also find this same p/n for a '65 Olds F-85 application when equipped with U89. This was the Trailering Wire Harness, hooking up a trailer meant more lamps operated by the flasher.

More info:

383637 was identified in the '70 Chevy Parts Catalog as Tung-Sol 323 or Stat Co. 145. 3 bulb application for '67 Bel Air & Biscayne.

But in the '67 Chevy Parts Catalog, it lists p/n 383639 as the T-S 323 or Stat 145 for the '68 Corvair & Camaro.

Want more confusion? '79 Supersedures/History listing shows:

383636 use 383637
383637 use 491160
383638 use 383639
383639 use 3866806

'75 Supersedures/History listing shows:

383639 use 491392

'73 Supersedures/History listing shows:

383637 use 3866804

I think I may have stumbled on the answer! From a Dec '64 dated Corvair Assembly Guide no less. Presumably for the '65 Corvair.

Illustration shows the Flasher choices. Corvair flasher was mounted in a clip like the F-85 and UNLIKE the way Pontiac did it by putting it into the Fuse Block.

They don't name the vendor but they show them as Item 24A and Item 24B.

The 24A is the rectangular Signal-Stat style, 24B is the round Tung-Sol style.

The Parts listing breaks it down as:

24A = 383638 - Flasher Assembly
24B = 383639- Opt.

Same clip held them both.

The Revision Block adds some additional insight:

Rev. 2 6-25-64 3866906 WAS 383638

Rev. 4 10-5-64 383638 & 383639 WAS 3866906 & 3866806

It appears to me that these are the 2 bulb flasher choices.

The revisions are interesting. They suggest that the original p/ns (which may have been issued by Olds) were superseded in June '64 by Chevy issued p/ns (3866906 & 3866806) only to be revised in Oct. '64 back to the Olds p/ns.

Extrapolating, it seems to me that 383636 and 383637 are the similar pair for the 3 bulb flasher choices, one would be the Tung-Sol, the other being the Signal-Stat.

Which was which I can't tell.

And I'm not sure which Model No. matches to which GM p/n.

But I think I have at least uncovered pretty convincing evidence that the O.E. flashers could be either Tung-Sol or Signal-Stat.

[62 bv]

hears the one for my 64

[RAII 4-speed]

My 1965 built in 1964 does not have the flasher on the fuse block.
it is above the steering column and very hard to get to.

[Option 382]

My 65 is like RAII 4-Speed, no flasher on fuse block. A/C ducting in the way to see it.

[John V.]

Bill, have found a couple places that suggest the 3 lamp choices were the Signal-Stat 145 or the Tung-Sol 323.

The Tung-Sol 323 seems to have been painted yellow (if they were painting them in '64), otherwise looks about the same as the Tung-Sol 224 that was painted Blue. Same marking on the top as the Tung-Sol 224 except adds "3 LAMP" under the "SAE".

You'll go crazy trying to make sense of the GM p/ns associated with the vendor p/ns using the various MPC resources.

I think that some of the descriptions may have gotten screwed up as the various GM p/ns were superseded.

After much researching, I believe the original '64 Lemans was supposed to get a 3 Lamp Tung-Sol 323 or a Signal-Stat 145.

The Tung-Sol may have been painted Yellow. The date code format was YWW, so that 412 would decode as 1964, 12th week.

The original '64 Tempest & Tempest Custom was supposed to get a 2 Lamp Tung-Sol 224 or a Signal-Stat 144, the Tung-Sol may have been painted Blue.

The Signal-Stat flashers may also have been color coded. In the '65 F-85 Assembly Manual it lists the 383638 and the 383639 both as "FLASHER ASSY (BLUE COVER)". Couple that with the '65 Corvair Assembly Manual illustrating the 383638 as the Signal-Stat style and the 383639 as the Tung-Sol style, I conclude that both of these were color coded Blue, so I assume that the 383636 and the 383637 would have both been color coded Yellow.

The color coding was probably done to help the installers quickly distinguish between them. Not sure if over-the-counter replacements were color coded, at least for the metal cans. Tung-Sol changed to a plastic cover at some point and it looks like they retained the same color coding, perhaps even for the over-the-counter replacements.

Bill, if you are convinced and would like a Yellow metal T-S 323, Chicago Corvette is selling one for $40, doesn't indicate the date code. I think it may be a used flasher.

[John V.]

Just a little more on the topic.

From the Corvette guys.

Seems there was a Corvette application in '63 that used a 3 lamp flasher, Tung-Sol 373. Chevy p/n 3758682. In '69, this p/n was obsoleted and replaced by Pontiac p/n 9771091. This would have been a '63 Pontiac vintage p/n as best I can tell. It looks like it was 1st issued for use in the '63 22 series Tempests/Lemans but superseded and was listed for Service on many earlier Pontiacs going back to the late '50s.

3758682 was also listed for use in the '64 Impala from what I can tell.

Anyway, it looks like the T-S 373 was "matched" to the use of 1034 tail lamps.

The '64 Lemans specified 1157 tail lamps.

The difference in resistance between the 1034 and the 1157 seems to have dictated the change in flasher usage.

The '64 Corvette may have switched to the 1157 bulbs, because '63 seems to have been the cut off for the use of the 373 in them. Not sure about the '64 Impala, may have continued with the 1034 bulbs.

The equivalent Signal-Stat to the 373 seems to have been the 143, 373/143 indicated for the '63 Corvette, 323/145 indicated for the '64 Corvette. These were all 3 lamp flashers apparently but different electrical characteristics for the 373/143 compared to the 323/145 I guess and most likely owing to the change in bulb specs.

Just a bit more evidence to confirm that the 323/145 is correct for the '64 Lemans/GTO.

[John V.]

And a bit more...

Another source suggests the 373/143 usage for the Impala ended with '63, so maybe the '64 Impala didn't get the 373/143.

Also, apparently, Signal-Stat had an earlier p/n system, Corvette guys apparently also accept the Signal-Stat ZN-332 for '63 though it apparently was an earlier p/n, it seems to have been used interchangeably in production.

They also say that two p/ns were noted in the Assembly Manual, the previously mentioned 3758682 plus 3758683. No indication which was which (T-S or Signal-Stat).

One guy mentioned that the Signal-Stat ZN-332 was the most commonly seen in Chevys ('62 Model Year was being discussed).

Doesn't affect the '64 Lemans but I thought it was interesting that the Signal-Stat was considered common in '62.

Wonder if that remained true into '64 for all GM or if perhaps Pontiac mostly used the Tung-Sol?

It seems GM may have purposely spread the wealth around, I once saw some info that suggested Dupont was the paint supplier to some plants while Ditzler supplied others.

Maybe it was same with the Flashers.

Doubt there are enough original flashers around to know for sure which one Pontiac was using at which plant in '64. I think you could use either one and consider it "correct". If there was a '64 Assembly Guide to check, I bet it would list both p/ns as interchangeable.

Meant to comment, I think it is interesting that Pontiac changed the location of the Flasher in '65. Looks like they installed it in a clip, same as Olds did in the '65 F-85.

Does anybody find it curious that the '66 MPC only shows the '65 T6/T8 getting the 2 lamp 383639 Flasher? Wasn't the '65 Lemans 3 lamp same as the '64 Lemans?

[60sstuff]

I know Mr. Ryder is asking for OEM 64 Flasher information (I would like to know also) but I thought I would post what is currently in my 01B 66 GTO.

Can't confirm if it's the same one from the Fremont plant but it is a painted metal Tung-Sol #552 DOT that is secured in a spring clip under the dash.

[John V.]

Pretty sure that has to be a replacement.

Department of Transportation was established by an act of Congress in Oct '66, didn't begin operation until April '67.

I don't know when Flashers first were marked "DOT" but I would assume sometime after that.

By the same token, not sure when Tung Sol stopped making metal can flashers or if they stopped. The plastic ones that came along seem to date as far back as the late '60s but again I'm not positive about that transition.

So yours seems "old" but doesn't seem likely to be original.

I'm not sure when the Tung Sol 552 was first produced, that could be another clue as to the age of it.

The Patent No. was filed in '63 but not published until Nov. 16, 1965. So I don't think the Patent No. would have been on the flasher until after the patent was actually published.

[Keith Seymore]

Hey guys! What's goin on in this thread?!

(lol)

Mine is blue, like the one brody posted (62bv). It is not in the fuse block, but is located in the harness directly below the dash.

K

[bill ryder]

Thanks John, for your in depth research on the flashers. I finally got sort of close to my fuse box and took this pic with a smartphone from about 4 feet. Close as I can get for now. Still can't make out all I need to. Maybe someone has the same flasher and can fill me in. THANKS "Bill"!

[JAKE 64]

For 1964

Bill:

The flasher you show is made by Tung Sol. More than one version existed. Yours was painted gold, and may state the following, with all lettering embossed on the top. The lettering was in a circular pattern, formed around ts, which was centered. From top to bottom: MADE IN U.S.A.; 552-12V; ts; SAE J945; PAT.NO. RE 24023.

A second version, essentially arranged as above, could have the following, from top to bottom: MADE IN U.S.A.; 552-12V; ts; DOT; PAT.NO. 3218415. The side of your flasher may contain an ink stamping repeating what was embossed on the top, a vendor/supplier, or other coding.

Oops, I had hoped to show some of the differing versions, but see I cut off two of them in the picture.

[FunctionalShaker]

Came across this old thread while researching a flasher I have. Another one to deepen the mystery. It's actually slightly paler yellow than shows in the pics.

[GTO.PAUL]

I am not sure if this will clear the air or muddy the waters but I just pulled these from my 02C Kansas built '67 GTO Conv Bench Seat 4spd. I bought it from my uncle in Oct '85 and finished the restoration of it just in time for the '87 GTOAA National's. I don't recall changing out the flashers(that's almost 40 years ago). If I am reading the date stamps correctly, the gold plated Signal-Stat 175 has a T 526, 52nd week of 1966, on one side and a T 017, 1st week of 1967, on the other side as shown. I have no idea why it has 2 date stamps on it. This flasher was in the top right of the fuse panel. The other flasher was captured in a spring clip type bracket below left of the steering column. It is a TS 552-12v and is a bare aluminum with the AC 552 ink stamp on the side. The date stamped into the side is 3 8 6, which I believe is the 38th week of 1966. This one does have a DOT and PAT NO. 3218415 embossed on the top as shown. Are these the original production line installed flashers? I think they could be. I have several of the light blue and yellow painted flashers as well, along with the green stripped aluminum ones. Now I will have to check out the dates on them at some point to see where they fall in line with these.

[GTO.PAUL]

A couple more pics of the 552 flasher.