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Old 08-09-2019, 01:18 AM
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Unhappy Engine autopsy pics for OGR

The first pass Friday at Norwalk I broke the #3 rod in my IA2 engine. It has aluminum rods. It looks like one of the rod bolts broke. Roughly 200 passes on the rods and maybe 4 torque cycles on the bolts. One was broke and the other looked like the threads were pulled out of the rod. The bolt that pulled the threads out was still in the cap when I found it so I’m thinking the other bolt broke first. What was left of the bearings didn’t look to have had any oil starvation. Luckily the crank and block all survived just fine. It’s a Bryant billet crank. Unfortunately as the rod made its way to the oil pan sump it got hit by all the rest of the rods from the #3 on back. One thing I found odd was there were two spiral locks in the pan too. I’ve only removed the pan so I can’t verify where they came from but I’d bet from the #3 piston. I hadn’t had the locks out since I put them on beginning of last season 200 passes ago. Here are some pics of the damage.
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  #2  
Old 08-09-2019, 01:22 AM
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A few more
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Old 08-09-2019, 06:51 AM
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Wow, what brand rod? That's why i like alum rods, break one and engine is still useable, break a steel rod and everything is toast.
Am i wrong or have you and Norwalk not gotten along of the years as far as issues go?

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Old 08-09-2019, 08:47 AM
Chief of the 60's Chief of the 60's is offline
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IMO 200 runs on aluminum rods is too many without disassembly and inspection.

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Old 08-09-2019, 09:25 AM
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I had around 150 on mine sent them in to GRP and they were still good, they sent them back.


GTO George

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Old 08-09-2019, 09:48 AM
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Rick great photos of the damage. sorry you had a failure but glad your block and crank are ok. That rod cap with the broken bolt is very interesting. In the picture from the color of the break and the size of the tensile hinge Id say that bolt has had a crack in it for awhile and it finally let go. hope you get her back together soon.

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Old 08-09-2019, 11:42 AM
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Thanks. You'll be back up and running better than ever !!
OGR

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Old 08-09-2019, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Roughly 200 passes on the rods and maybe 4 torque cycles on the bolts.
Well, it looks like the rod bolts should have been changed at 199 passes?



Really, probably the bolts should be changed every other time unbolted?



Hopefully will have it together and even better and faster.



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Old 08-10-2019, 10:04 AM
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Sorry you lost out on racing your car . I was wondering what hapened to you . I always like watch your car go down the track .

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Old 08-10-2019, 06:45 PM
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I don't know whose connecting rods those are or who made the fasteners. However, we have been using BME aluminum rods for decades, and have become friends with Mr. Miller. He makes a really big deal out of assembly techniques and procedures. Some of them are quite different from what I was used to, but I followed them because I figured he should know. One was to use no assembly lube on the bolts! He wants the fasteners, the washers, both sides, and the serrations coated with the same engine oil your going to run. He wants the fasteners snugged up only! Around 10 ft. lbs. Then he wants the final torque pulled in ONE step slowly and smoothly to specs. Not in multiple steps like a head stud. Not saying in anyway a failure to do these things caused your rod failure. If the company who made those rods is a major supplier, they should have a metallurgy department. Call them and see if they can analyze your failed parts and you will know for sure. Glad you had only minor other damage.

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Old 08-11-2019, 08:59 AM
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Hey Rick
Sorry to hear that bud. That sucks especially at Norwalk. Looking on the bright side though, it gave everyone else a chance to win something for once!! LMAO.


I’m just kidding bro.

Brian

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Old 08-11-2019, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbird View Post
Wow, what brand rod? That's why i like alum rods, break one and engine is still useable, break a steel rod and everything is toast.
Am i wrong or have you and Norwalk not gotten along of the years as far as issues go?
These are GRP rodents with ARP 2000 bolts. I’ve had a few issues at Norwalk over the years. First time ever there, 20 years ago, I caught the car on fire, I’ve had a carb part go down the carb and into a cylinder and had to pull a head off, and a couple other little things. Mostly I seem to break it the weekend before we leave and have to thrash on it to make it.

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Old 08-11-2019, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's View Post
IMO 200 runs on aluminum rods is too many without disassembly and inspection.
200??? I actually had them apart and put it back together about 30 passes before this happened. Don’t tell my aluminum rods in my little motor that. They probably have 700 passes on them. Lol! I usually get around 4 to 500 before I start getting worried about them.

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Old 08-11-2019, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
I don't know whose connecting rods those are or who made the fasteners. However, we have been using BME aluminum rods for decades, and have become friends with Mr. Miller. He makes a really big deal out of assembly techniques and procedures. Some of them are quite different from what I was used to, but I followed them because I figured he should know. One was to use no assembly lube on the bolts! He wants the fasteners, the washers, both sides, and the serrations coated with the same engine oil your going to run. He wants the fasteners snugged up only! Around 10 ft. lbs. Then he wants the final torque pulled in ONE step slowly and smoothly to specs. Not in multiple steps like a head stud. Not saying in anyway a failure to do these things caused your rod failure. If the company who made those rods is a major supplier, they should have a metallurgy department. Call them and see if they can analyze your failed parts and you will know for sure. Glad you had only minor other damage.
That’s the same procedure GRP recommends too. New rods and probably a new piston and
We should be back in business.

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Old 08-11-2019, 11:40 AM
Chief of the 60's Chief of the 60's is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Probird View Post
200??? I actually had them apart and put it back together about 30 passes before this happened. Don’t tell my aluminum rods in my little motor that. They probably have 700 passes on them. Lol! I usually get around 4 to 500 before I start getting worried about them.
But

Quote:
Originally Posted by Probird View Post
The first pass Friday at Norwalk I broke the #3 rod in my IA2 engine. It has aluminum rods. It looks like one of the rod bolts broke. Roughly 200 passes on the rods and maybe 4 torque cycles on the bolts. One was broke and the other looked like the threads were pulled out of the rod. The bolt that pulled the threads out was still in the cap when I found it so I’m thinking the other bolt broke first. What was left of the bearings didn’t look to have had any oil starvation. Luckily the crank and block all survived just fine. It’s a Bryant billet crank. Unfortunately as the rod made its way to the oil pan sump it got hit by all the rest of the rods from the #3 on back. One thing I found odd was there were two spiral locks in the pan too. I’ve only removed the pan so I can’t verify where they came from but I’d bet from the #3 piston. I hadn’t had the locks out since I put them on beginning of last season 200 passes ago. Here are some pics of the damage.
I did see your car up in the air all weekend and thought it was "just" a tranny problem. This issue does suck much worse though.

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Old 08-11-2019, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's View Post
But
Different motor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Probird View Post
Don’t tell my aluminum rods in my little motor that.

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