#21  
Old 08-20-2019, 09:24 AM
TAQuest TAQuest is offline
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Originally Posted by ponyakr View Post
" NAPA has a whole display of straight inverted flare 3/8" tubing in at least a half dozen different lengths..."


Anybody know exactly how to call up any of these, online ?

I went to the NAPA site & couldn't come up with any, no matter how I worded the search.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/search...ualified=false
Found it in the power steering fitting section;
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/PSK7...e+barb+fitting

  #22  
Old 08-20-2019, 09:40 AM
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Well, it took a while. But I finally found an 8" piece. It's made by(or at least sold by) the same company that made my hose barb. American Grease Stick Company, part #BLX-608BK. The Balkamp part number is BK 8131246. It's listed as a brake line assembly adapter. Only $3.49 each, plus tax.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_8131246

I Googled that AGSC part number & didn't get much of anything. I assume that other part houses sell the same thing. Can't verify.

Anyhow, I prefer the hose barb, But, for those who might prefer the line & nut, there's a link to a cheap source.

And yes, I realize that most nowadays don't wanna use any rubber hose in the fuel system. I'm old school, & on a VERY low budget. So, I'll use some rubber hose & some metal line, as well as inline fuel filters. I'm running ethanol free 93 octane gas. This system worked just fine on all my previous race cars, as well as lots of street cars & trucks. So, maybe it'll get me by for a few more years. I'm guessing that I'm not the only guy still using rubber gas line. But, I know that lots of guys would use only the latest, greatest braided hose & AN fittings.


Last edited by ponyakr; 08-20-2019 at 10:08 AM.
  #23  
Old 08-20-2019, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ponyakr View Post
Well, it took a while. But I finally found an 8" piece. It's made by(or at least sold by) the same company that made my hose barb. American Grease Stick Company, part #BLX-608BK. The Balkamp part number is BK 8131246. It's listed as a brake line assembly adapter. Only $3.49 each, plus tax.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_8131246

I Googled that AGSC part number & didn't get much of anything. I assume that other part houses sell the same thing. Can't verify.

Anyhow, I prefer the hose barb, But, for those who might prefer the line & nut, there's a link to a cheap source.

And yes, I realize that most nowadays don't wanna use any rubber hose in the fuel system. I'm old school, & on a VERY low budget. So, I'll use some rubber hose & some metal line, as well as inline fuel filters. I'm running ethanol free 93 octane gas. This system worked just fine on all my previous race cars, as well as lots of street cars & trucks. So, maybe it'll get me by for a few more years. I'm guessing that I'm not the only guy still using rubber gas line. But, I know that lots of guys would use only the latest, greatest braided hose & AN fittings.
Yup.
I've got rubber covered in braided stainless all the way from the tank to the pump, then from the pump to the carb.
Just have to make sure it's the new type of rubber made for new fuel and you have a filter AFTER all the rubber.

  #24  
Old 08-20-2019, 10:51 AM
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NEVER use rubber line on the pressure side of a fuel pump. It's not that it might fail, it will fail, and hopefully you can get out of the vehicle quickly enough to avoid injury.

Another BIG no-no is using the metal brake lines for fuel line and not putting a "bulge" on them to keep the hose from slipping off. I see this done just about every day as folks send me picks of their set-ups asking questions, etc. If you hit a hard bump, fender bender or major accident that rubber hose is quite likely to slip off and you'll have fuel everyplace, at least till the engine shuts down.

For those of you who are "old school" and still using old methods to make fuel lines and "rig" things for carb conversions, etc, and going to use rubber fuel line on the pressure side despite the dangers involved, obtain a double flaring tool kit. Use the first step of the double flaring operation to put a nice "bulge" on your metal fuel line. At least it woln't slip off when you least expect it.

As for setting up fuel systems, I do this frequently, there are many ways to skin that cat. Most "high performance" fuel system parts, filter housings, sumps, pumps, etc will almost always be NPT threads. This makes it simple when putting a system together as there are "conversion" fittings from NPT threads to just about anything you would want to attach to. They make just about every fitting you could think of from NPT to hose, including "push-loc" or even better screw together fittings.

Most stock fittings will be inverted flare, usually 5/16" or 3/8". You can adapt from inverted flare to hose as discussed on this thread. The advantage of NPT over inverted flare is inside diameter and less restriction.

For about 20 years or so I've been using a lot of push-loc hose and fittings. No clamps required, just make sure you eat your Wheaties the day of assembly, some of them can be a little difficult to shove all the way in place.

We also make AN fittings for Q-jets for those that want to use them with 8AN lines/fittings, for example......Cliff

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Old 08-20-2019, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAQuest View Post
Yup.
I've got rubber covered in braided stainless all the way from the tank to the pump, then from the pump to the carb.
Just have to make sure it's the new type of rubber made for new fuel and you have a filter AFTER all the rubber.
Using hose when double-wall seamless steel tubing will do is NUTS.

Double-wall seamless tubing--or the hard plastic tube now used by OEMS--is lighter, cheaper, more-durable, and less-porous than steel-braid-over-rubber hose.

There's a reason the racing authorities limit the amount of hose that can be used on a race car.

For the record...I have a friend that lost his car to a piece of deteriorated steel-braid-over-rubber fuel hose on the pressure side of an electric fuel pump. If he hadn't pushed the flaming mess out of his driveway and into the street, he might have lost the house he lived in, too. Folks wonder why I harp on the danger of hose on the pressure side of the pump...

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Old 08-20-2019, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Schurkey View Post
Using hose when double-wall seamless steel tubing will do is NUTS.

Double-wall seamless tubing--or the hard plastic tube now used by OEMS--is lighter, cheaper, more-durable, and less-porous than steel-braid-over-rubber hose.

There's a reason the racing authorities limit the amount of hose that can be used on a race car.

For the record...I have a friend that lost his car to a piece of deteriorated steel-braid-over-rubber fuel hose on the pressure side of an electric fuel pump. If he hadn't pushed the flaming mess out of his driveway and into the street, he might have lost the house he lived in, too. Folks wonder why I harp on the danger of hose on the pressure side of the pump...
Alright. I'll get it changed out. You made a difference today. Maybe saved a few lives and a few Pontiacs plus a barn. High 5. Probably cost me $15 and 1 hour worth of work.

  #27  
Old 08-20-2019, 10:19 PM
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https://www.discounthydraulichose.com/38-836.html

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  #28  
Old 08-20-2019, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by TedRamAirII View Post
That one seems to indicate that it has 3/8 threads. I assume that means 3/8 pipe threads(NPT) The Carter pump requires 5/8"-18 threads. I tried a 3/8 NPT, at my local hardware store, & NAPA. Would not even begin to screw into the pump. A 5/8"-18 bolt screwed right in.


Last edited by ponyakr; 08-20-2019 at 10:43 PM.
  #29  
Old 08-21-2019, 05:37 AM
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This stuff can be confusing but anytime you see an "inverted flare" fitting, or steel line that has double flared ends it is designed to be screwed into inverted flare fittings.

5/16" inverted flare will have 1/2"-20 threads.

3/8" inverted flare is 5/8-18.

5/16" steel line is only 1/4" inside diameter.

3/8" steel line is 5/16" inside diameter.

All inverted flare fitting and lines are designed to seal on the double flared end of the line. No sealant of any kind is used. DO NOT use Teflon tape on any of these fittings. It is a good idea to use some lubricant during assembly on all the parts to keep them from "locking" together and trying to turn together instead of compressing the flared end of the tubing into the fitting and establishing a good seal.

ALWAYS hold the fitting you threading into with a wrench while tightening the nut to seal the flare or it can and will twist and can kink the line or even crack or break off the fitting on the fuel pump. On the carb end you can destroy the seal on the fuel filter housing, and even strip out the threads if you don't hold the big 1" nut with a wrench.

NPT threads are designed to establish a seal at the threads (tapered) and best to use some sealant to make sure there aren't any leaks. In theory you don't have to use anything but it really helps to use a small amount of Teflon pipe paste. Do NOT use Teflon tape, it can and will find it's way into the fuel system and "snake" it's way into the carburetor.

It's pretty much the industry standard to equip most "high performance" parts with NPT threads as there are a LOT more options available than there are for inverted flare fittings. Most will be 3/8" NPT.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...s/parts/12-803

Some of the higher flow stuff will by 1/2" NPT, like the Holley high flow fuel pressure regulator.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...s/parts/12-704

If you do some research you will also find a wide assortment of hose available to build a fuel system. If you use "push-lock" fittings no clamps are required, and they make just about every conceivable fitting in -6, -8, and -10.

https://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/JEGS-AN-...62951/10002/-1

All you have to do is decide what size to use, I recommend at least -8 on both sides but typically -6 on the pressure side is adequate to at least 500hp.

At each of your components, fuel cell or sump, filter housing, electric fuel pump, or high output mechanical pump, and the carb you simply have to screw in a 3/8" NPT to -8 (male) fitting.

https://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...rsistYmm=false

Then measure and cut the fuel hose, push it onto the push-loc swivel fittings, and make the connections.

As far as fuel hose is concerned there are dozens of options, some will say right in the listing that it is "push-lock", other will not, but typically any 1/2" (for example) hose or -8 will work with push-loc fittings.

https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/102021/10002/-1

You can also save a LOT of money doing a little "google" searching.

https://www.amazon.com/Push-Lock-Fue...B5GG61S3HHQS5Y

If you don't care about pretty colors for the fittings and just go to a local source that builds hydraulic hoses and grab a handful or zinc plated fittings. Most will also have black hose suitable for fuel at good prices as well.

The only part that may get a little confusing is some of the terminology, you'll often see "JIC" or "AN" listed. It's not really a big deal there, all of this stuff (far as I know) will have a 37 degree flare and interchange freely....hope this helps some.....Cliff

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Old 08-21-2019, 08:19 PM
TedRamAirII TedRamAirII is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponyakr View Post
That one seems to indicate that it has 3/8 threads. I assume that means 3/8 pipe threads(NPT) The Carter pump requires 5/8"-18 threads. I tried a 3/8 NPT, at my local hardware store, & NAPA. Would not even begin to screw into the pump. A 5/8"-18 bolt screwed right in.
3/8" tube nut has 5/8 -18 thread. I dont know why you think its hard to find. Every 3/8 steel flared tube connection is 5/8-18 thread.

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  #31  
Old 08-22-2019, 05:52 AM
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Inverted flare fittings aren't as common as NPT, but you are correct, PLENTY of tubing around. Every auto parts store I walk into has it in various lengths from brake line size to at least 3/8".

Did I ever mention:

"NEVER use rubber line on the pressure side of a fuel pump. It's not that it might fail, it will fail, and hopefully you can get out of the vehicle quickly enough to avoid injury."

......Cliff

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  #32  
Old 08-22-2019, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by TedRamAirII View Post
3/8" tube nut has 5/8 -18 thread. I dont know why you think its hard to find. Every 3/8 steel flared tube connection is 5/8-18 thread.
I suppose the reason I thought that is because the guy at NAPA tried lots of hose barbs from his assortment & none would fit. He didn't know I needed 5/8"-18 threads, until he got a 5/8"-18 tap from his assortment to screw into my pump, which I had to ask him to do. And apparently, he didn't even know he could order one. And I tried the only one that was close to the right diameter, at the hardware store, and the threads were different.

Or it may be that during my extensive online search I only saw the 5/8"-18 thread size mentioned on a couple of sites.

So you tell me. Exactly how was I supposed to know that ALL 3/8 flared tube connections have 5/8"-18 threads ???

Just because YOU know something, does not mean that everybody who posts on this site knows everything you do.

There is LOTS of stuff I don't know. And I realize that there are LOTS of guys who post here that know LOTS more stuff than I know.

If you've never learned something, how are you supposed to know ???

Some animals seem to know how to do certain things by nature. Human beings seem to need to learn certain facts, either by being taught, or by experience, which some call "trial & error".

But, we all know, or have known, people who seem to look down on those who know less than they know, about whatever subject is being discussed. I suppose that, for some, it's just "their nature". They know more than you. and they want you & everybody else to know that they know more than you. It's sometimes very entertaining to watch 2 or more of these types arguing, on one of these car forums.


Last edited by ponyakr; 08-22-2019 at 08:39 AM.
  #33  
Old 08-22-2019, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponyakr View Post
I suppose the reason I thought that is because the guy at NAPA tried lots of hose barbs from his assortment & none would fit. He didn't know I needed 5/8"-18 threads, until he got a 5/8"-18 tap from his assortment to screw into my pump, which I had to ask him to do. And apparently, he didn't even know he could order one. And I tried the only one that was close to the right diameter, at the hardware store, and the threads were different.

It was the guy at Napa's job to know it was a flare fitting. Be able to tell. If he doesn't know old cars then he needs to go and ask a fellow employee.
It was NAPA's failure to hire a person who has a better background.
Or even someone who would go on the computer and look at a schematic.
Ignorant AND lazy.

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Old 08-22-2019, 08:58 AM
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Had I known the correct way to ask the question, I could have found the thread size by Googling it.

If you know that the fitting needed is called an "inverted flare", and you know that you need a 3/8" inverted flare, you can find the correct thread size from this chart, which I just found on Google.

http://fittingsandadapters.com/threadchart.html

When I took my pump to town, I didn't know that the hose barb I needed was called an inverted flair, nor that is was 45°. I didn't even know it was called a "barb". I was looking for, & asked for, a hose "nipple", for 3/8" hose.

  #35  
Old 08-22-2019, 09:16 AM
TAQuest TAQuest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponyakr View Post
Had I known the correct way to ask the question, I could have found the thread size by Googling it.

If you know that the fitting needed is called an "inverted flare", and you know that you need a 3/8" inverted flare, you can find the correct thread size from this chart, which I just found on Google.

http://fittingsandadapters.com/threadchart.html

When I took my pump to town, I didn't know that the hose barb I needed was called an inverted flair, nor that is was 45°. I didn't even know it was called a "barb". I was looking for, & asked for, a hose "nipple", for 3/8" hose.
You should have been able to hand them the pump. Tell them the application.
Then they tell you what fitting you needed.
You did everything right. Don't blame yourself. Not your fault.

  #36  
Old 08-22-2019, 09:22 AM
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Just Googled 3/8" inverted flare hose barb.

Found this Dorman, on the O'Reilly site. The thread size listed is "3/8". So, how was I supposed to know that the thread size was NOT what is listed, but is actually 5/8"-18 ?

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b...ose+barb&pos=2

https://www.dormanproducts.com/p-46693-785-408.aspx

And you can buy one of these from lots of places. But, they all show 3/8" threads. So, if you don't know that it actually has 5/8"-18 threads, how are you supposed to know that it is what you need ?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb-785-408

https://www.jegs.com/i/Dorman-Produc...5-408/10002/-1

https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-785-40.../dp/B004F5A0LU

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dorman-78...ting/181678913

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dorman-785-...i:333285491604

https://www.pepboys.com/dorman-autog...product/894809

https://www.finditparts.com/products...RoCItkQAvD_BwE

Here's an Edelman 821660. Again, no mention of 5/8"-18 threads.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edd-821660/overview/

https://www.amazon.com/Tomkins-82166.../dp/B000NCZJBK

Here's a Midland 38-836.

https://www.discounthydraulichose.com/38-836.html


Last edited by ponyakr; 08-22-2019 at 09:57 AM.
  #37  
Old 08-22-2019, 09:31 AM
TAQuest TAQuest is offline
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Originally Posted by ponyakr View Post
Just Googled 3/8" inverted flair hose barb.

Found this Dorman, on the O'Reilly site. The thread size listed is "3/8". So, how was I supposed to know that the thread size was NOT what is listed, but is actually 5/8"-18 ?

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b...ose+barb&pos=2

https://www.dormanproducts.com/p-46693-785-408.aspx

And you can buy one of these from lots of places.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb-785-408

https://www.jegs.com/i/Dorman-Produc...5-408/10002/-1

https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-785-40.../dp/B004F5A0LU

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dorman-78...ting/181678913

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dorman-785-...i:333285491604

https://www.pepboys.com/dorman-autog...product/894809
By googling your arse off first …..

Getting lots of results and filtering out the wrong info.

  #38  
Old 08-22-2019, 10:47 AM
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STEELCITYFIREBIRD STEELCITYFIREBIRD is offline
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I worked a year at a hydraulic hose shop while laid off from my present position.\
There is a huge amount to learn there, hose spec's, fitting types, etc.I absorbed a lot but only had a year, there is a huge amount more to learn/remember....one of the keys to each type of fitting is to look at where it seals, thread, conical metal to metal, elastic seal, etc. With older American automobiles, it's limited to only a few
different types of fitting sealing methods. It gets out of hand with big Foreign heavy equipment!

Study the brass cabinet at a parts store for common fitting types used, or an online catalog.

  #39  
Old 08-22-2019, 08:22 PM
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I knew it wouldn't take but a day or two before someone sent me a pic of their set-up.

I see this ALL THE TIME....very dangerous......Cliff
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Old 08-22-2019, 08:47 PM
TedRamAirII TedRamAirII is offline
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Sorry. I ASSUMED the guy at Napa/Crapa would see the flare inside the pump and KNOW it could not possibly use NPT Threads. Maybe that's whey they make them different pitch, so they would never go together. ; )

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