[grivera]

I went for a long drive on Sunday in 90 degree weather. About an hour in, I filled up with a full tank of 93 octane. Engine temps during driving fluctuated between 185-195 degrees. After fueling up, I stopped at a light and the car stalled out. It would then crank and “buck” but wouldn’t start. With help, I pushed it to a side road and attempted numerous times to start it. Even considered it might be flooded so tried the pedal to the floor method and no dice. On a couple of occasions I didn’t even get a click at the starter/no crank, but the dome light would light when door open. The battery remained strong otherwise and cranked at regular speed. All wire connections visible on top of engine look normal. There was no electrical smoke, pop, etc. I ended up towing it home and it sits waiting on me to fix it.

It has an electric in-tank Walbro 255 lph pump with ½” supply and return. I could hear the pump running and smelled gas at carb. I haven’t yet checked for spark. Dizzy is Dave’s Small Body HEI and coil is Summit brand e-core. Engine harness was replaced in 2011 with an M&H set up and HEI 12V wire - only about 2k miles on harness and 300-400 miles on this engine. About 9 months ago I swapped out the ignition switch on steering column. I have a 4 gauge cable from battery to a lug in trunk which powers fuel pump relay. That wire runs through firewall and along door sill guard, under rear seat into trunk.

I hope to get to it this weekend. I plan on checking for spark first then 12 volts at coil. Will also look at the starter wiring.

Any thoughts or ideas?

[tstevea]

Ignition module if no spark

[P@blo]

Could be pick-up coil or even a bad rotor so I'd pull the cap and have a look first.

[steve25]

If the accelerator pump makes fuel shot then I would say the pick up coil went open and a test with a timing light to see if it flashes will comfrim spark or not .

[grivera]

I'm looking forward to digging in. Any comments on why on a couple of occasions it didn't turn over at all, or "click" the starter?

[ponchjoe]

Check to see if the carbon button in the cap snapped off, I’ve had that happen

[steve25]

Cranking issues need to be broken down into either does it happen only when the motor is hot or has been sitting hot for 10 minutes and is now heat soaked, or the no Crank condition is random.

If it takes place when hot only then it could be the starter solenoid, Battery connections , or the switch in your case that's on the top of the base of the steering column.

When the motor does not Crank and you have your headlights on then if you do not see them dim then that atleast confirms that your Battery is good and something electrical connection is not closing to Crank the motor.
At that point your taking about a bad ignition switch on the lower base of the column, or the starter solenoid.

If your not running headers then many times when the motor does not Crank you can slip a screw driver down into the end of the starter and place a short across the Battery terminal and the Crank terminal and regardless if the solenoid is bad or not the motor will Crank.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Check battery voltage on battery terminals, not cable terminals ~ 12.6 is full charge.
Proceed to clean and tighten terminals. Hopefully you don’t have any $2 bolt on battery terminals. Or one of those green knob quick disconnects. If you do make sure all are making good contact and not getting hot when cranking.

Check for spark at the plug, further diagnose if no spark.

Check for fuel discharge from carb, further diagnose info fuel available.



I’m going to guess at connection/s at starter need attention.

Define “buck?”
Did it ever sputter or fire when you tried to start?

[phil400]

Did the engine slowly die or just quit on ya with no warning?

[grivera]

Originally Posted by ponchjoe

Check to see if the carbon button in the cap snapped off, I’ve had that happen

I don't recall the small cap having a carbon button - maybe I don't know what that is?

Originally Posted by steve25

Cranking issues need to be broken down into either does it happen only when the motor is hot or has been sitting hot for 10 minutes and is now heat soaked, or the no Crank condition is random.

If it takes place when hot only then it could be the starter solenoid, Battery connections , or the switch in your case that's on the top of the base of the steering column.

When the motor does not Crank and you have your headlights on then if you do not see them dim then that atleast confirms that your Battery is good and something electrical connection is not closing to Crank the motor.
At that point your taking about a bad ignition switch on the lower base of the column, or the starter solenoid.

If your not running headers then many times when the motor does not Crank you can slip a screw driver down into the end of the starter and place a short across the Battery terminal and the Crank terminal and regardless if the solenoid is bad or not the motor will Crank.

I failed to mention I let the car cool to 150 on gauge before calling the tow truck - it cranked but no attempt to start - like no spark sound

Originally Posted by STEELCITYFIREBIRD

Define “buck?”
Did it ever sputter or fire when you tried to start?

The buck was similar to when an engine has too much timing. It didn't even sputter .

Originally Posted by phil400

Did the engine slowly die or just quit on ya with no warning?

died without warning.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

ANd I now see you have power to the coil.
....ANd I'm off to bed

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

I'm highly confident you likely have two separate problems, and the starter problem may not be a problem at all. (If you have power to the coil and dizzy!) It may be unhappy with the extended cranking. If you find that you have no power to the coil, the ignition switch could then be suspect.

I'm not sure where the coil gets its power from on one of these setups, assuming the same feed as the module.


Check for spark at the coil next to eliminate the cap, rotor and wires..
Spark present at coil, your problem is in the cap,rotor, or wires.
Still no spark.
Check for power to the coil, key on (check both sides in case the polarity was inadvertently installed reversed)

No spark at coil, but power present.
If you have NO power to the coil, find out why .(..or provide temporary power supply)
If you have power to coil , move your test light to the ground side of the coil, it should flash when cranking.

If it doesn't flash, the module, ignition coil, wiring between the dizzy and coil, pickup coil are the next suspects...in that order,( as long as the dizzy is turning!)

If you have power to the coil, and provide a ground to the other side the coil should fire when you switch the ground. Coil works but may have taken out module.
https://www.davessmallbodyheis.com/s...il-filled-coil

I highly suspect a module....and a coil, if you have power to the coil key on.



Shoot me a PM and I'll give you my cell # if you want me to walk you thru the diagnosis.
HTH,( and makes sense...it's late and been a long day!)

[indymanjoe]

my neutral safety switch acted up occasionally with a no crank situation. Doesn't explain the rest of your dilemma though.

[rohrt]

It sounds like you might have got a bad tank of Gas. Friend of mine had the same thing happen. He filled up and didn't make it a mile and the car died. Ended up being to much water in the gas.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by rohrt

It sounds like you might have got a bad tank of Gas. Friend of mine had the same thing happen. He filled up and didn't make it a mile and the car died. Ended up being to much water in the gas.

Seems unlikely as it was Costco gas - but everything is suspect

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by grivera

I stopped at a light and the car stalled out. It would then crank and “buck” but wouldn’t start... ...attempted numerous times to start it... ...On a couple of occasions I didn’t even get a click at the starter/no crank, but the dome light would light when door open.

It has an electric in-tank Walbro 255 lph pump with ½” supply and return. I could hear the pump running and smelled gas at carb. I haven’t yet checked for spark.

I hope to get to it this weekend. I plan on checking for spark first then 12 volts at coil. Will also look at the starter wiring.

Any thoughts or ideas?

WHAT starter motor? How old/how many miles?

Until you check for spark, all we can do is make wild guesses.

[grivera]

The starter is a mini IMI- About 2k miles on it.

[phil400]

I'd look at spark. Anytime I've ever had a car just die on me has always been spark related.

[phil400]

Just wanted to add,I've had a pick coil go bad on me. Quick.and easy test, connect test light ground to Positive batt terminal, put probe in tach of dizzy, no blinking light means bad pick up coil or maybe coil,blinking light but no spark is coil.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

Assuming the car dying and simultaneous cranking and starter motor related issues are due to the same fault, it seems like an electrical problem getting power to the cranking system and ignition system.

1. poor connection at the fusible link which provides power to the ignition switch and related.

2. Ignition switch related issues

3. Wiring issues at the starter if that's where the battery connection and the battery feed to the harness are joined.

If the ignition dying and the starting issues are separate faults, check each system for wiring issues (for the starter) and check for spark from the ignition system. if no spark, check for power going to the ignition system and then drill down as necessary. Connect battery directly to the proper terminal on the dist and try for spark. This will eliminate all intermediate wiring for ignition power.

george

Where is the fusible link for the ignition switch located?

Originally Posted by phil400

Just wanted to add,I've had a pick coil go bad on me. Quick.and easy test, connect test light ground to Positive batt terminal, put probe in tach of dizzy, no blinking light means bad pick up coil or maybe coil,blinking light but no spark is coil.

This sounds easy to do - will give it a shot, hopefully tomorrow