#241  
Old 11-02-2009, 12:38 PM
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I agree the grill looks strange (probably "homemade" at the DPG) but I don't think it has any rocker trim installed in the DPG photo.

I doubt it was anything special originally. I'm inclined to believe it was a production vehicle that, because of it's availability, gradually got morphed into this tire test vehicle.

Perhaps in a future Heritage Center visit I could get some build information off the car.

K

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'63 Grand Prix
'65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer
'74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/
My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
"Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926
  #242  
Old 12-04-2009, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Seymore View Post

I think for the most part you have highly motivated and intelligent people who are saddled with the stupidity and inefficiencies of working for a major corporation....

...that, and the volume of product produced. At Flint Assembly we had two assembly lines producing 60 vehicles an hour, two shifts. If you multiply that out (60 per hour x 8 hours per day x 2 shifts x 2 lines x 280 days per year) you get 537600 vehicles per year. That's at one plant, minimum (ie, no overtime). A half a million vehicles...

Now I want you to image a huge parking lot, probably 10 acres, filled with vehicles that still require repair. These vehicles are constantly being shuttled back and forth, out back and then into the building, over to the railyard, through the shipping building, to the trucking yard, etc. The opportunities for error are tremendous...and that's before the vehicle even leaves the property.

Here's another picture of the "back yard", this time my alma mater: Chevrolet Flint Assembly in Flint, Michigan:


__________________
'63 LeMans Convertible
'63 Grand Prix
'65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer
'74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/
My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
"Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926
  #243  
Old 12-04-2009, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citydesk175 View Post
Post #1: I have heard many stories in 40 years with GM but one puzzler was the 67 GTO that was found on Pontiac Plant property by a fork lift driver who made a wrong turn.

The orange foundry dust covered classic was literally buried near the foundry and was not found for many years after it was driven off final assembly

thats about all I heard for sure but I think I can assume that it was hidden because it was crashed somehow and the driver hid it to save his job

Assunption 2 is that it was taken to the Engineering building to be torn down so that each engineer in the bldg could get a look at how well a car and its parts stand up to the elements for a dozen years

One tricky part is ownership..........Did GM collect on insurance?

And of course......... who wanted to own it?

sigh more stories to come
Citydesk175

Well....we've come full circle.

I was having breakfast with my buddy MikeW. Mike worked his whole career at the Pontiac complex and retired a few years back. He told a similar story, only in his version it was a '64 big car (Cat or Bonneville) and it was discoved in '67. He also added that there was some body damage, like a dented quarter and bent bumper, as though it had been in an accident in the plant and then stashed to avoid being found out.

Different version of the same story? Or an entirely different event?



K

__________________
'63 LeMans Convertible
'63 Grand Prix
'65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer
'74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/
My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
"Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926
  #244  
Old 03-26-2012, 09:56 PM
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Default GTO Test car

Quote:
Originally Posted by 242177P View Post
I read a small blurb (in Hot Rod or Car Craft) about a white 67 GTO that was still being used a flat tire rig??

Could a car simply disappear? Sure. Why not?

Wouldn't be surprised if this was an engineering car that died, got pushed into a corner, and eventually forgotten...

Here is the GTO test car.

Luke
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  #245  
Old 04-07-2015, 08:10 PM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Seymore View Post
I realize it's almost unbelievable, but I just received confirmation via email from the GM Heritage Center that this Plum Mist '67 is, in fact, the tire test car from the DPG:





K
Quote:
Originally Posted by shook1 View Post
Here is the GTO test car.

Luke
As always, great stories and histories shared. Thxs.
Here's the revised Ames/PY image link of the Tires Test GTO http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...&pictureid=430

  #246  
Old 04-09-2015, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citydesk175 View Post
Thank You
Sadly......I never snuck out any car parts.

I did manage to keep a document dated 1974 that canceled the 1975 model year GTO.
I mentioned it to a GM archivist and HE WANTS IT asap.
I assume I will get a chance to post it here too.

Regards
citydesk175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Seymore View Post
Does that mean I need to give it back, or did you keep a copy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Seymore View Post
Here it is:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...postcount=3306

  #247  
Old 04-10-2015, 09:35 AM
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I for one am glad to see this thread getting some action again. Some things have changed (Mike Nixon is sadly no longer with us, and I fear the same for Ralph Reinhart = citydesk175) so perhaps some updates are in order.

Here are some updated links, corrected for the new forum name:

Finding and interpreting historical documents: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=549092

A couple Arnie Beswick stories: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...=546939&page=3

Delorean and "the Sandwich": http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=549318

'63 Nationals: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=549309

Old racer pics: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=543741

__________________
'63 LeMans Convertible
'63 Grand Prix
'65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer
'74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/
My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
"Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926
  #248  
Old 04-10-2015, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Keith Seymore View Post
Thanks guys and especially thanks to you too, Mike Davis, for the kind words.

JLHarper and I had a little conversation going offline, but there was something I forgot to mention (JL - clean some of your PM's out!) so I'll just post it here:

Back in 1986 I decided I wanted to get a new pickup truck, so I went down to my favorite Chevy dealer and ordered up a new 1987 model. I got a V6 with the RPO MY0 trans, which was a 3 speed manual with fourth gear as an overdrive (it even came with a production floor mounted Hurst shifter).

The problem was that was the timeframe when Hurst was being bought out by Mr Gasket. As a result, they weren't sure they were going to continue to build the parts and so GM put the option combination on "Stop Order".

I was pretty bummed when I found that out 'cause I thought it was a pretty slick setup. I begrudgingly started scheming "plan B", which was to order a column shifted Saginaw three speed (RPO M62 or M64) and then convert it to a four speed floor shift myself, like I had done with my 1980 pickup.

Well, one day as I was walking through the plant and passed by the motor line I noticed they had a bunch (!) of these MY0 transmissions, sitting on the floor and on pallets. I called the material office and asked "...how many of those transmissions do you think we have?". They replied they figured about 100. I suggested "don't you think we should build those out, so that we don't get charged with obsolescence or scrap fees?

They agreed and so we built (under a temporary deviation) 100 MY0 trucks for the 1987 model year (...one of which just happened to be mine...).



I didn't mention it above but I drove that little red truck off the end of the assembly line myself.

An update: after driving this truck for about five years I sold it to my father in law. He had it for about 18 years. When he passed away in August of 2008 (just a few short months after the original post) the family asked if I wanted it back. It was pretty beat cosmetically but very sound mechanically. I spent from May to September of 09 redoing the appearance and this truck, since that time, has been my daily driver.

28 years on the road; 206,000 miles.

K
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__________________
'63 LeMans Convertible
'63 Grand Prix
'65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer
'74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/
My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
"Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926

Last edited by Keith Seymore; 04-10-2015 at 10:05 AM.
  #249  
Old 12-26-2016, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Seymore View Post
I agree the grill looks strange (probably "homemade" at the DPG) but I don't think it has any rocker trim installed in the DPG photo.

I doubt it was anything special originally. I'm inclined to believe it was a production vehicle that, because of it's availability, gradually got morphed into this tire test vehicle.

Perhaps in a future Heritage Center visit I could get some build information off the car.

K
I realize this is an old post, but I just ran across it today, and had to throw in my 2 cents. I drove the tire test GTO back in the summer of '94. It was part of "high g / limit handling certification" which would allow one to conduct high speed testing at DPG and MPG. The GTO was equipped with an apparatus that would allow a front or rear tire to be deflated nearly instantaneously (it had pressures tubes attached via a slip ring apparatus to the wheel - tires could be re inflated on the fly from a compressed air tank in the trunk). The test runs that I made in the GTO were focused on learning how to recognize and recover from a blowout on either end of the car at speed. There were a number of other exercises required to receive the high g certification including evasive maneuvers and completing a gymkhana style road course under a specified time limit. (Note: only the "blowout" testing was done in the GTO, all other track work was conducted in current model cars) I still have a copy of that "license". I'll post it in a few days if I can find it!


Last edited by giles; 12-26-2016 at 01:28 AM.
  #250  
Old 12-26-2016, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by giles View Post
I realize this is an old post, but I just ran across it today, and had to throw in my 2 cents. I drove the tire test GTO back in the summer of '94. It was part of "high g / limit handling certification" which would allow one to conduct high speed testing at DPG and MPG. The GTO was equipped with an apparatus that would allow a front or rear tire to be deflated nearly instantaneously (it had pressures tubes attached via a slip ring apparatus to the wheel - tires could be re inflated on the fly from a compressed air tank in the trunk). The test runs that I made in the GTO were focused on learning how to recognize and recover from a blowout on either end of the car at speed. There were a number of other exercises required to receive the high g certification including evasive maneuvers and completing a gymkhana style road course under a specified time limit. (Note: only the "blowout" testing was done in the GTO, all other track work was conducted in current model cars) I still have a copy of that "license". I'll post it in a few days if I can find it!
Thanks for posting.

I also have high g/limit handling certification, as well as Bondurant training.

This was back when ABS development was in its infancy and they sent all the related engineers through the training. I managed to schmooze may way into it even though I was not a brake engineer at the time.

K

__________________
'63 LeMans Convertible
'63 Grand Prix
'65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer
'74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/
My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
"Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926
  #251  
Old 12-26-2016, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by giles View Post
I drove the tire test GTO back in the summer of '94.
Just noticed this part of your post; we would have just missed each other.

I was stationed at the DPG from 1990 through Jan 1 of 1994. I came back to Michigan at that time to be a design/release engineer on the GMT800 program.

K

__________________
'63 LeMans Convertible
'63 Grand Prix
'65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer
'74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/
My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
"Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926
  #252  
Old 12-26-2016, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith Seymore View Post
Just noticed this part of your post; we would have just missed each other.

I was stationed at the DPG from 1990 through Jan 1 of 1994. I came back to Michigan at that time to be a design/release engineer on the GMT800 program.

K
I'm sure we crossed paths at some point. As part of the 3800 development group we were out at DPG nearly every month (except Jan Feb when we were at Kap!)

  #253  
Old 12-26-2016, 10:17 PM
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As long as we are traveling "back to the 90s" I thought I'd post up this picture from an F-car development trip circa January '97. Grainy, yes, but this was still pre-digital pictures!
This was an engineering trip so the purpose was product development and refinement for the 1998 model year. All of the cars are engineering mules except for the '97 Anniversary Camaro. Note all the other cars have a "hood bump". The cars mechanically were '98s including powertrains, brake systems, electrical content, and chassis tuning. They also had '98 induction systems which would not fit under a stock '97 hood. Rather than put '98 sheet metal on everything and give secrets away, the cars were built with rather unsightly fiberglass panels attached to cover the holes cut in the steel hoods for clearance. Some were painted body color, some were left gel-coat white. The '97 Firehawk hoods provided ample clearance too, and we had a few Firebirds with them, but none were on this trip.
The trip included V-6 (my program) and V8 cars. We drove from Michigan to Denver (where I joined) through Colorado into Utah. We took this side trip to the Bonneville Salt Flats. We did not venture far out on to the salt as it was a little wet this time of year, but far enough to realize how vast and flat it was! We continued on into Nevada stopping in Vegas and ending in Phoenix. If I remember correctly there were 3 V6s and 3 V8s along with the '97 production Camaro, and I think we had a Mustang along for comparison, as well as a chase truck. This was a typical product development trip where we would travel 3-400 miles per day, taking data, rotating among cars and meeting and discussing at the day's end to consider changes / improvements for the following day. This timing would have been "pre-pilot" with the intent of finalizing any changes prior to "pilot" build (or "start of saleable vehicle" - can't recall exactly when that term replaced pilot, but around this time frame). Pilot '98s would have been built in March '97 at Ste Therese. I wound up with two vehicles out of that pilot build but that is another story....
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  #254  
Old 03-28-2023, 05:56 AM
Azdpg1994 Azdpg1994 is offline
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Hi Keith. I used to work for the traffic safety department at the dpg. I conducted the high-speed training and spent a lot of time training in that old gto. Believe It Or not, that car is still around.

  #255  
Old 03-28-2023, 05:59 AM
Azdpg1994 Azdpg1994 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvin View Post
As always, great stories and histories shared. Thxs.
Here's the revised Ames/PY image link of the Tires Test GTO http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...&pictureid=430
I remember the day that the old blowout training GTO was picked up from the dpg. I have a few pictures of it if anybody is interested.

  #256  
Old 03-28-2023, 08:21 AM
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Keith Seymore Keith Seymore is online now
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Originally Posted by Azdpg1994 View Post
I remember the day that the old blowout training GTO was picked up from the dpg. I have a few pictures of it if anybody is interested.
Thank you for posting,

Yes! Pictures are always welcome!

K

__________________
'63 LeMans Convertible
'63 Grand Prix
'65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer
'74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/
My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
"Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926
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