#41  
Old 06-26-2020, 03:49 AM
android 211 android 211 is offline
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If you want more for the car it needs the air conditioning replaced and functional., a reproduction ram air system and sell the mags and replace them with 15x7 Rallye IIs.

  #42  
Old 06-26-2020, 06:52 AM
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Not a whole lot to add other than what has already been mentioned.
Yes, the color holds down value. I would think someone, somewhere, would eventually love it though. I think you need to be patient as the market is a lot smaller, but if it is as rust free as you say I think $20,000 is a decent price.
I always preferred the ‘71-72 GTO hoods over the 68-70. The same way I like the Formula hood as opposed to the TA shaker hood. Just personal taste.

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  #43  
Old 06-26-2020, 08:20 AM
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I think your opinion is just that. An opinion. Obviously you are biased against the 71/72 nose. Suggesting a lemans nose is preferred is insulting.






Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacJim1959 View Post
Comparing Pontiac's to Chevelles, or Buicks to Chevelles, or Oldsmobiles to Chevelles is apples and oranges. The Chevelle will always be far more popular and desirable than a Pontiac of the same year. With the trend towards LS conversions and 5/6 speed manual transmission bolt in swaps, there is no comparison to driveline popularity with the generation that is now looking for these cars. One reason there are more and more LS conversions going into GTO/Pontiacs. Look at the price comparison to get equal HP engine to engine. Pontiac engine's are not cheap to build. And, you can't just go to a junkyard, craigslist, or dealer and order a Pontiac engine.

The 1972 GTO is not a desireable, nor attractive, body style. It has a bulky & clumsy looking nose. It is about as desirable as the 1973 GTO. The saleable ones are indeed based on the drivetrain which would be the higher HP & manual 4-speed cars.

The low compression, low HP, TH-400 and 3.08 gearing does not fit the mold of the GTO name that most are looking for. I suspect a Honda would have no problem running circles around the car.

The color is horrific, factory or not, period. Some people will put a personal favorite/custom color on the car because they like it, thought it was cool, or just wanted something custom. That color is not a generic and saleable color like black, green, red, etc..

Looks like a lot of spray bomb and under coating. When I see that, it scares me away because I don't care if you say it was rust free or not. No car almost 50 years old is rust free. Surface rust is not rust free. I personally would be more comfortable seeing an unmolested car showing its age to include rust/surface rust and pitting.

I find it funny that you are complaining you cannot sell it, but you could have. So in being obstinate and steadfast on your price, you lost out on a 19K sale. So now you talk about modding it which will put you deeper in the money pit hole. Are you ready to take a bigger loss?

Ditch the '72 nose and install the more pleasing '72 Lemans nose with chrome bumper on it. Put the GTO crap in the corner for the next guy. Customize? Add a pair of the Firebird Formula hood scoops. Guy in high school had this and it was outstanding. Ditch the mags and go with factory Pontiac mags/trim rings or even steel rims with dog dish hubcaps. Paint the car black and add the reflective Gold '72 body side stripes.

You could even fit the car with the more desirable 1970 GTO nose and Judge stripes.

Use the engine as a base build. Go with a stroker 461 kit from Butler. Have the 7K3 heads ported and rebuilt to flow 240 CFM's. Get a lumpy matching cam BECAUSE lumpy idle sells. RA exhaust manifolds and 2 1/2" pipes.

TH-400 is old school, but can still be kept. Add a "tight" 2500 stall converter, HD clutches & sprag, shift improver kit like Transgo which allows for both manual shifts as well as automatic shifting in Drive.

3.08's will work well with the bigger cubes & torque and the higher stall converter.

Now you will have a saleable package that looks good, sounds good, and will shred tires - all of which an older Pontiac buyer is looking for. Put an LS 5/6 speed or OD trans in it and you will peek the interest of the millenium crowd IF they have a job to support the price you'll be asking.

Any item anyone sells is only worth what another is willing to spend to acquire it. Apparently your selling price as viewed by potential buyers over a 3 year period just isn't working. You may want to let your children know what you think it is worth in your will, otherwise they may sell it at market price.

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  #44  
Old 06-26-2020, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacJim1959 View Post
Ditch the '72 nose and install the more pleasing '72 Lemans nose with chrome bumper on it. Put the GTO crap in the corner for the next guy. Customize? Add a pair of the Firebird Formula hood scoops. Guy in high school had this and it was outstanding.\ ... Paint the car black and add the reflective Gold '72 body side stripes.
Some laughably stupid comments and "suggestions" in this post, but this paragraph takes the cake. Stick with the '59's and leave the GTO chatter to those who have clue.

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  #45  
Old 06-26-2020, 12:04 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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The metallic/flake orange color itself isnt so bad.
They had an Orange in 72 so its not completely foreign.

But it looks like they loaded the clearcoat with sparkles too, on top of that.
That always kills the deal and looks too Tijuana / Ghetto

If the paint looks "thick" , thats even more scary to a prospect.

No way in hell i'd drive that car more than enough to get it home and hide it.
Probably what your prospects have thought too

Could wet-sand it and have the "low-sheen" patina look and would probably disguise most of the sparklies.
Pop on some Rally 2's w/o trim rings.
Then it would look a whole lot more like a civilized GTO to a GTO buyer.

The next best alternative would be some true vintage mags, side pipes and chrome ladder bars,
claim it was a 70's World of Wheels custom show car.

The front clip is probably worth about 5k alone , if its really super clean.

  #46  
Old 06-26-2020, 02:20 PM
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I agree that the dated custom metalflake paint is the first thing that's going ot hurt value on the car;
A good number of people decide from the get-go on if they like hte car purely based on the street appeal - and colour of the car.
The wheels are nice, but the wheel/tire combination appear to be decades apart from the paint.

I agree that the 71-72 GTO front end is a bit of an aqquired taste, but I strongly disagree that it is "not desireable" or that "it is about as desireable as a 1973 GTO".
I personally have come around to liking the 71-72 GTO front ends, and I think many in the hobby would have thoughts much inline with this.

I agree that a factor is that not everyone relizes that 1972 model year GTO's didn't have the 242 vin - many people (as far as I know) will go straight to the vin to see if ti's a 242.
Do you have PHS on it?
Having PHS might help, incase someone is thinking it's "just a GTO clone".

Aside from looking at paint, I'd just drive it, and make it a more enjoyable car;
How does the AM mono radio work?
If it's not working so well, maybe it could use a stereo;
maybe you can find a 1970's or 1980's two post tape deck to put in it and carry some of the dated vibe into the interior!?

I think the fact that it has a 1973 YS motor instead of what was probably a 1972 YS motor to be a lesser issue than some may have made it out to be;
Let's be honest, most GTO's were driven hard, and a great deal have replacement engines - which is why these days people (like myself) go great lengths to get as correct a replacement engine as possible.
The 1970(?) transmission I see as barely being even worth mentioning past the fact that it isn't it's original drivetrain;
But it does have a replacement "correct" (400ci/TH400) drivetrain - you have that going for you.

Is the top end original?
I can see the intake is May 1972, and that it's a 1972 model year intake - but I cannot make out the head numbers.

I agree that putting the AC back in there might help;
Many people would aspire to have an as-original or as-correct car as possible.
(maybe flip the air cleaner lid back right side up too!?)

I can see that little things like the washer nozzles are not hooked up - and loose ends, or any apparent short cuts taken on the car may really hurt when someone does come to look at it.

The interior looks fantastic;
What's the wire dangling from the glove box about?

It's my opinion, (since you're looking for them) that you will get the most money out of the car if it:
- presents well
- appears to be complete
- does not appear have any corners cut
- (and) can be driven and enjoyed exactly as-is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by android 211 View Post
If you want more for the car it needs the air conditioning replaced and functional., a reproduction ram air system and sell the mags and replace them with 15x7 Rallye IIs.
I think this is a very good post /\ /\

It is honestly a nice looking car.
I'd own it, but if I did, I'd fix some loose ends, and look into a colour change.

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Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
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Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


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2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #47  
Old 06-26-2020, 02:42 PM
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If your asking 20 for that 72, you are in NO way out of line! That is a very nice car.

I think it would do better if the interior was black though. If it not a GTO then put the trim that belongs on it.. I see cars set up like plain Jane 60s/70s street racers do very well. Maybe some black painted steel wheels 15 x 7 15 x 8 in the back with chrome lugs would give it a hint of bada$$.. I would stay away from modern ascetics, Pro Touring etc.. but update the suspension with a new Lee steering box 14:1 maybe 30 pound..

Pretty hard to compete against cars like the 66 GTO or Chevelle..

Wish you luck..


Last edited by 389; 04-25-2022 at 05:43 PM.
  #48  
Old 06-26-2020, 03:58 PM
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My fave year GTO, And it's due to looks! well worth 20k.
What has not been mentioned about the collector class of buyers is that after the 1971 model, ALL GTO were an option on another model, Lemans and Ventura II. Sadly this can eliminate some buyers. If I had room and the 20K, I would fix AC, install HEI, and a 2004R, and Drive it!!. Getting Value out of your car involves Turning the Ignition switch ON ! Love it!

  #49  
Old 06-26-2020, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTOnly70 View Post
Some laughably stupid comments and "suggestions" in this post, but this paragraph takes the cake. Stick with the '59's and leave the GTO chatter to those who have clue.
The '72 nose is a design failure. It is one of the least attractive front nose applications that could have been used on a GTO. I can see why the GTO faded away. The designers must have been grasping at straws or were purposely installing a cumbersome and gawdy front sheet metal treatment to steer people over to the Trans-Am and Firebird line. The body shell has a rounded shape, then they throw an exceptionally too wide, too long, and too flat pair of scoops. Then they extend the grille and put the grilles at a conflicting angle instead of flat and parallel to the car, and slap on an afterthought of a bumper and paint it body color while the rear bumper is chrome showing no balance to the design thinking. Heck, the nose arrives 10 minutes before the car does! And air extractors or brake cooling vents? Why? That 4,000 lb A/C car could never get going fast enough to need them. Horrible.

The '72 Lemans & GT-37 have a far better "muscle" look than the mamby pamby look of the GTO. Could you see those bogus scoops on a '72 TA? Sales would have plummeted. How about a Formula? Awful. A similar scoop was used in '76 on the Formula, but it was scaled back, better proportioned, and blended in with the rest of the nose design. The '72? The designers blew it on that one.

My opinion is that the GTO line ended in 1970. After that, it was all down hill and proof of that was the GTO went out with a whimper and a lipsticked up Nova called a Ventura with a 350 said to be a GTO. This is why the '72-'74 GTO's don't have a big following (unless higher horsepower optioned with 4-speeds) and won't command the prices the 1970 and earlier GTO's can. I would take a '72 Chevelle over any '72 GTO and I am not a Chevy guy.

I'll stick to the real '64 - '70 GTO's, thanks for the suggestion.

  #50  
Old 06-26-2020, 08:31 PM
etd66ss etd66ss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacJim1959 View Post
The '72 nose is a design failure. It is one of the least attractive front nose applications that could have been used on a GTO. I can see why the GTO faded away. The designers must have been grasping at straws or were purposely installing a cumbersome and gawdy front sheet metal treatment to steer people over to the Trans-Am and Firebird line. The body shell has a rounded shape, then they throw an exceptionally too wide, too long, and too flat pair of scoops. Then they extend the grille and put the grilles at a conflicting angle instead of flat and parallel to the car, and slap on an afterthought of a bumper and paint it body color while the rear bumper is chrome showing no balance to the design thinking. Heck, the nose arrives 10 minutes before the car does! And air extractors or brake cooling vents? Why? That 4,000 lb A/C car could never get going fast enough to need them. Horrible.

The '72 Lemans & GT-37 have a far better "muscle" look than the mamby pamby look of the GTO. Could you see those bogus scoops on a '72 TA? Sales would have plummeted. How about a Formula? Awful. A similar scoop was used in '76 on the Formula, but it was scaled back, better proportioned, and blended in with the rest of the nose design. The '72? The designers blew it on that one.

My opinion is that the GTO line ended in 1970. After that, it was all down hill and proof of that was the GTO went out with a whimper and a lipsticked up Nova called a Ventura with a 350 said to be a GTO. This is why the '72-'74 GTO's don't have a big following (unless higher horsepower optioned with 4-speeds) and won't command the prices the 1970 and earlier GTO's can. I would take a '72 Chevelle over any '72 GTO and I am not a Chevy guy.

I'll stick to the real '64 - '70 GTO's, thanks for the suggestion.
IMO, the 72 Lemans front end is gaudy at best. Having said that, the 71/72 GTO front end is my least favorite. 66 & 69 would be my favorites.

In terms of the GTO going down hill in 71, well, a lot of muscle cars started to do down hill about that time. The 71/72 Chevelle front ends got quite ugly very fast, then 73 Chevelle's came along, just lol at that styling.

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  #51  
Old 06-27-2020, 12:15 AM
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Jim59;
You're not actually adding anything benifitial here.

To further this, might I point out that there is virtually no styling difference between 1971 and 1972 GTO's. So picking on specifically 1972's seems like a lost cause from over here.
Same bumpers;
Same hoods;
essentially the same drivetrains.
The only differences between those years is that you could buy a '71 Judge, or a GTO convertible... or both.
It seems to me that 1971 GTO's have been skyrocketing;
If one of the twins is going up, the other is sure to follow.

Also, it has seemed that the Lemans models originally opted with the GTO front ends have been getting alot of interest of late.

@etd66;
It's still a nice car;
I think there are some good points brought up which you can either use to enjoy tge car, or to help attract a buyer - which ever you choose.

Good luck!

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #52  
Old 06-27-2020, 01:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacJim1959 View Post

The 1972 GTO is not a desireable, nor attractive, body style. It has a bulky & clumsy looking nose. It is about as desirable as the 1973 GTO.

Ditch the '72 nose and install the more pleasing '72 Lemans nose with chrome bumper on it. Put the GTO crap in the corner for the next guy.
Could not disagree with that statement more!
The '71/'72 Chevelle front ends always looked more suitable to a pickup truck to me.

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Last edited by Greg Reid; 06-27-2020 at 02:04 AM.
  #53  
Old 06-27-2020, 09:08 AM
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I personally like the '71 and '72 with '70 and '67 as my least favorite. '65 are the best.

$20k for the car is all the money there is in the car in question because of the paint. Some guys will like it and some won't however.

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  #54  
Old 06-27-2020, 07:15 PM
etd66ss etd66ss is offline
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If I don't get $20k this summer, think I'll just hold on to the car. For $20k the buyer is also getting a '73 400 engine (apart) from a TA as well as a correct for 72 Q-Jet that needs a restoration. Don't need to sell it, but wanted to put that money aside for my next car, which I want to be a 69 GTO or a 68 Charger.

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  #55  
Old 06-27-2020, 10:37 PM
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Don't think you'll be getting that '69 GTO or Charger.

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She woke up sunny side down and I was still thinking I was too proud to flip her over
  #56  
Old 06-27-2020, 10:52 PM
etd66ss etd66ss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wick View Post
Don't think you'll be getting that '69 GTO or Charger.
Why not??

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  #57  
Old 06-27-2020, 11:03 PM
Chief of the 60's Chief of the 60's is offline
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Purists will look down on anything that don't have date coded, numbers matching gas in it.

  #58  
Old 06-27-2020, 11:23 PM
PontiacJim1959 PontiacJim1959 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unruhjonny View Post
Jim59;
You're not actually adding anything benifitial here.

To further this, might I point out that there is virtually no styling difference between 1971 and 1972 GTO's. So picking on specifically 1972's seems like a lost cause from over here.
Same bumpers;
Same hoods;
essentially the same drivetrains.
The only differences between those years is that you could buy a '71 Judge, or a GTO convertible... or both.
It seems to me that 1971 GTO's have been skyrocketing;
If one of the twins is going up, the other is sure to follow.

Also, it has seemed that the Lemans models originally opted with the GTO front ends have been getting alot of interest of late.

@etd66;
It's still a nice car;
I think there are some good points brought up which you can either use to enjoy tge car, or to help attract a buyer - which ever you choose.

Good luck!
So are you saying that replies can't be honest personal opinions which critique a particular car, model, or year in a less than uplifting and positive light should not be posted, .......and that only happy, uplifting, and supportive replies should be allowed because you don't agree with the less than uplifting and positive reviews?

Yep, I am aware that the '71's are like the '72's. My referencing is to the '72 model here posted. However, in being fair, the '71 GTO, and the GTO nose option on the Lemans is a failure in design aesthetics just as the AMC Pacer was.

Please define what "skyrocketing" prices of the '71 GTO is? I just checked several web sites selling these and I am not sure what you consider "skyrocketing", but I have to say you are simply stating that fact without facts. The only higher priced '71's were the expected convertibles and Judges and/or HO equipped. Other than that, I could not seem to find this "skyrocketing" you are talking of.

I hate to sound rude, but you're actually not adding anything beneficial here.

  #59  
Old 06-28-2020, 12:24 AM
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unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
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I might not be adding anything to further the discussion persay, but getting you to stop might be a benifit of it's own.

We get it, you don't like 1972 GTO's;
We all got it the first time around;
And we get it with every subsiquent post.

Please understand that this is not a personal attack;
I don't know you, and I have nothing against you.

Have you taken notice when people have replied to your comments?

This thread was created to help atd66, not to vent about styling preferences.

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #60  
Old 06-28-2020, 03:10 AM
etd66ss etd66ss is offline
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I guess before this thread devolves into a fight, just want to say thanks to all for posting (even the very negative posts). I have no problems with the varied opinions, as that's what this country is about. (Or should be about). Hope we don't have to completely erase history as the fascists seem to want.

Most of what was said about my car makes sense, biggest ding being the color choice of the owner who painted the car in 2007.

One of the new things I learned is that in 72 the GTO as a Le Mans option, eventhough I knew about this, I didn't realize it's a turn off for some buyers becase of the no 242 VIN. I didn't think this was a devaluing factor. Coming from the Chevelle world anything after a '68, a SS is an option and not a model with a separate VIN, so was already used to that and it's acceptable to own a 70 SS for sure.

I also thought that since 72 was a strike year and there was a limited prod run of GTO's, that this would make the 72 more desirable than its look a like 71 brother, but I guess not.

However, none of the negatives about the car will change my bottom price I would accept. IMO, the condition of the original sheet metal adds value back in. So many cars we look at these days need full qtr's & whatnot, and GTO's just don't have a high end option such as AMD, would have to get lucky finding NOS panels, and then paying crazy money for them.

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