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Old 12-23-2010, 01:42 PM
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The car still has the same welded frame connectors and traction bars that where installed when the car began it's racing career. Including the under gas tank pick up that Brain Ballish had one of his friends braze onto it.......
I had the car at Norwalk one year without the traction bars. The track photographers got several great angles of the car. From the photos the car squated lower, nose in the air, better weight transfer and the body did not twist. Both front wheel came up equally. I just didn't want to take a chance of snapping the pinion, nor did I want to use a pinion snubber because it took the car away from it's original look...I like the old traction bar look...Go Figure I'm a little sentimental about the history of the car....
You'll have to find the Sep/Oct 2006 Pontiac Enthusiast magazine the article has several pictures of the car.
I did however get rid of the 4 foot long hollowed out glass packs Brian did back than, in exchange for a full three inch stainless steel exhaust system that exists where the stock system used to. The system has an pipe configuration and the whole center section can be dropped out to allow work on the transmission. Those four foot glass packs that where the entire system from the headers to there tips. My new system added more weight to the car too.
Do you think it was a little loud?

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Last edited by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer; 12-23-2010 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 12-24-2010, 04:13 PM
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http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/...eric/eric.html

I found some pics of the car including a view of the gas tank by Googling for it.

Real nice Dr. Schiffer!!

Don
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  #43  
Old 12-25-2010, 01:08 PM
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Well I'm glad all this great information has been brought to light about the Blackbird. It is definitely a piece of Pontiac history as well as a legend of street racing. In the early 70's this car could run in the 10's when a real fast street racer was considered a 12 sec car. It was able to beat a factory engineer "tricked up" Hemi car which shows a well prepared Pontiac could beat anything. Thanks to the efforts of Dr. Schiffer the legend of the Blackbird lives.

  #44  
Old 12-25-2010, 02:29 PM
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Your welcome. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share this with you. But you also have to remember that prior to the racing ban that came down from GM, Pontiac was a dominate force in racing. You had many talented engineers that Bunkie Knudson put together that loved racing. Early on you had Mickey Thompson, Ray Niichels, Smokey Yunick, Pete Estes, Mac McKellar, Russ Gee, John Delorean and Jim Wangers. These people where followed up by Herb Adams, Tom Nell, Tom Goad and many others in support like George Hurst.
In 1962 Jim Wanges' matched raced the Ramchargers with his "Old Smokey" '62 SD Royal Race Car. Jim Beat them badly. The Same thing happened in 1963 with Jim using the '63 Royal Race car. the week before he Indy Nationals But this time the Ramchargers had Dave Strickler, a Chevy guy post a protest. You have all seen Jim Wangers jump the starter against Strickler and get disqualifed. Jim felt he'd rather red light than loose to Strickler.....As it turned out Stickler cold never reel Jim in.
Strickler went on to loose to the Ramchargers in the final round.
I wish Jim would write another book about all of the Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac and Royal's race team and the Mail order Royal Racing Team (PMD's off sight engineering branch which was Royal Pontiac's back room after 6PM) Many Royal people never get the credit they should, Frank Redicker, Win Brown, Clairence Walters, Chuck Broomfield, Dave and Sid Warren, John Politzer, Brian Ballish and Bill Schmitz to name a few more. There are several more....

Yes, you are very right about 12 second cars. I had a 13.0 '57 Vette and 12.5 Nova that could handle 98% of the cars on the street. It was this upper eshelon that one would not even think about going up against. Problem was most Detroit area cars did not advertize their potential. No Yenko, Nickey or Baldwin Motion stirpes or decals to call out the potential. Guys would do just he oposite...307 or 350 tags on a big block Chevy. 383 Tags on a 440 -6 Pack car..... I did come against one of the big boy's once/or even twice and I thought my Nova's engine stopped....LOL But no the tac was still moving..... WOW my ego as soooo deflated...LOL

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Last edited by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer; 12-25-2010 at 02:57 PM.
  #45  
Old 12-25-2010, 10:44 PM
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Don,
I love that you found so many pictures of the car since I've owned it. Several are from the photo shot on Woodward for Pontiac Enthusiast Magazine. One from Norwalk with street tires and Rally II's heating up the tires to run the blue GT-37. The other drag strip shots are at Milan Dragway.
To bad we don't have a shot of me putting it to a tuner car who cut off the photographer to line up next to me at a light on Woodward during the soot.. The light barely turned green when I launched the Bird bringing the wheels up than made it across the 6 lanes and the width of the median intersection before the tuner got across one lane. The people in the photo truck were laughing so hard when they caught up to me. They said I should have seen the face on the guy driving the other car.
Looking at the shot from behind me at the Milan light, I see the slick is beginning to wrinkle with the light at the last yellow. I must have gotten a pretty good reaction time, even though my left foot was still on the brake...
You have to love it

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Last edited by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer; 12-25-2010 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 12-26-2010, 07:54 AM
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Thanks for the reply, that sure was nice of Jim. What a guy!

After reading about it above, I have to ask is your old friend Les Goodman's 68 GTO still around?

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Old 12-26-2010, 10:26 AM
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Funny you should ask about Les Goodman. I hadn't seen Les in years. Than last night I ran into him at a Chinese restaurant. We talked briefly just before our families where being seated.
He reminded me that his 428 was installed by Royal Pontiac but it was one of his dad's pateint's that got him that engine. It was a 428 with Ram Air IV (not Ram Air II) heads that came out of PMD engineering. Les has pictures of the car. I asked him to look up this site since so many people do not believe that GTO's such as his ever existed. He gave me a very confused look and an irritated "Why wouldn't they". I explained to him that people that didn't live in Detroit feel this stuff is pure fantasy....LOL
Les's GTO was a '68 Turquois with a white vinyl top and white "Bobcat" hood stripe. I don't remember what side body stripe he had that lead back to his "Royal Bobcat" emblem on the doors. Go figure it has only been 41 years ago....LOL
Like everything here in Detroit it just became obsolete and Les moved onto a newer car.
But it didn't occur to me to ask if he knew any more about the car.

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Last edited by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer; 12-26-2010 at 10:33 AM.
  #48  
Old 12-26-2010, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer View Post
I wish Jim would write another book about all of the Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac and Royal's race team and the Mail order Royal Racing Team (PMD's off sight engineering branch which was Royal Pontiac's back room after 6PM) Many Royal people never get the credit they should, Frank Redicker, Win Brown, Clairence Walters, Chuck Broomfield, Dave and Sid Warren, John Politzer, Brian Ballish and Bill Schmitz to name a few more. There are several more....
Eric - I'm sure you won't mind if I humbly and specifically add my Dad's name to the list of "several more".

He didn't do much street racing (....at least that he told me about ...) but was certainly in the thick of things at Royal, carrying the banner at the local racetracks.

K

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Old 12-26-2010, 01:06 PM
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Keith,
I'm sorry for leaving your dad out , the late Van Seymore, I believe Jim Wangers called him "Slim". I know he built many a 4 speeds for the Royal customers and Pontiac race teams as well. Not including all of the racing he did with a Pontiac.
Amazing how he worked with Chevrolet but they won't give him a ride....But Pontiac had no problem with suppling him with cars.....
We can add Pete Seaton and Bill Sidwell too,

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Last edited by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer; 12-26-2010 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:46 PM
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Great thread. I really enjoyed it. I go to Detroit on business every now and then. The first time I went I "cruised" Woodward in the Kia rental car, trying to picture it back in the day. Drove by the old Royal dealership on Main in Royal Oak. That would have been a great time to live in Detroit, with all that back door factory engineered equipment on the street.

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Old 01-09-2011, 08:02 PM
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Matt,
Look me up the next time you are in Detroit for business. I'll introduce to some of these famous places and people.
Dugan's Irish Pub on Woodward just north of 13 Mile Rd is a must. You need to look around on every wall and ceiling. You will find a picture of the Blackbird and the Silver Bullet up stairs. Go up stairs and sit near one on the Wooward side windows. Watch as the muscle cars pile into Sam's Shell station across the street. Order yourself a Totem Pole Big Cheif or a Teds 5x5. A side of chili fries and a coke. Now you can sit back and dream what it was to cruise Woodward or pick up a race.
If you are here on a weekend and around Birmingham, MI. on a Saturday at 8AM until 10AM you'll be introduced to many of the industry people, current and the past. Along with many varities of cars. Including advance engineering cars. (Right Keith?)
A weekend in the summer on Woodward would be packed with classic cars.....
Eric

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Old 01-10-2011, 01:29 AM
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Thanks for the invite. I will do just that the next time I go to Detroit on business. I go to MGA Research in Troy which is on 14 Mile Rd. just off the freeway by the Oakland Mall and to TARDEC ( U.S. Army Tank Automotive Research, Development and Engineering Center) which is south of the GM Tech Center. I came close to going to the Woodward Cruise a couple of years ago but a higher priority job at my work bumped my testing by a week and I missed it. I have been to the Ford and Chrysler museums. Most people don't enjoy going to Detroit but I do. I even like driving around and looking at the old factories that have not been torn down. Detroit is a mecca to a true car guy.

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Last edited by LUST01; 01-10-2011 at 01:35 AM.
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Old 01-10-2011, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer View Post
If you are here on a weekend and around Birmingham, MI. on a Saturday at 8AM until 10AM you'll be introduced to many of the industry people, current and the past. Along with many varities of cars. Including advance engineering cars. (Right Keith?)


K

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Old 01-10-2011, 08:53 AM
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Thanks for the invite. I will do just that the next time I go to Detroit on business. I go to MGA Research in Troy which is on 14 Mile Rd. just off the freeway by the Oakland Mall and to TARDEC ( U.S. Army Tank Automotive Research, Development and Engineering Center) which is south of the GM Tech Center. I came close to going to the Woodward Cruise a couple of years ago but a higher priority job at my work bumped my testing by a week and I missed it. I have been to the Ford and Chrysler museums. Most people don't enjoy going to Detroit but I do. I even like driving around and looking at the old factories that have not been torn down. Detroit is a mecca to a true car guy.
Matt - I've got a little "factory ruins" tour that I've done for a couple PY members, which seems to have been well received. After you are finished with Eric, give me a call and I can show you around in a somewhat "strategic" fashion....

K

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Old 01-11-2011, 01:41 PM
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Keith,
Can I go too?....See you Saturday

By the way Matt, the Saturday of the Dream Cruise is for tourists...The weeks leading up the "official" day are even better.

Eric

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Old 01-12-2011, 08:21 AM
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I would like to go to!!!!!!

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Old 01-12-2011, 06:07 PM
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Jeff,
We'll have the club rent a bus and Keith will be our tour guide....What do you say Keith? Maybe we can get Grant to bring his limo....
Second thought.. Grant may not show...LOL

See you Thursday, Jeff?

Eric

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Old 01-12-2011, 09:02 PM
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Dr. Schiffer, you're my kind of Doc

I'm just reading this thread for the first time and like another member here wrote "talk about a history lesson"!

Wow, what a bunch of very interesting details about the goings on back in the old days in the Detroit area. This is as good as many of the nitty gritty details we find in Jim Wangers' book Glory Days!

I have read Glory Days and I remember info about a GTX street racer in the book but I don't recall any details about the wicked black firebird. I recall that Jim Wangers wrote about a a pair of nearly identical GTOs that may have raced that GTX, one a 4-speed GTO, the other an automatic car.

Thank you for sharing. The BlackBird is one helluva car & you are, no doubt, a great caretaker for this car.

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Old 01-13-2011, 12:12 AM
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Different GTX's. The GTX that raced the two Royal 67 GTO's was more or less a standard 67 Hemi GTX. These two GTO's were modifed by Royal to be part of the 1967 Pontiac press fleet. The GTX that the Blackbird raced was Jimmy Addison's Silver Bullet, a 67 GTX that was built and supported out the back door by Chrysler Engineering. The race between these two cars took place in the late 71/early 72 time frame.

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Old 01-13-2011, 12:18 AM
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Eric and Keith, I need for work to send me out to Detroit again (let them pay for the air fare!!!). Hopefully we can arrange something when I am out there again. It looks like there might be work on the horizion that will need to be tested at MGA if we get the contract.

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