#21  
Old 03-03-2018, 11:10 AM
tom s tom s is offline
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My first 63 car was a 326 HO stick shift car.They came with duals.Too many year to remember how it was done but it was.Tom

  #22  
Old 03-03-2018, 02:13 PM
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I also had a 63 HO 280 HP stick as a new car! I still remember the strange routing of the dual exhausts. The drivers side ex manifold exited from the front, crossed over under the front of the pan and the 2 pipes ran parallel towards the back of the car! I think there was some strange (aka 63 Tempest) adapter for the choke heat riser.

  #23  
Old 03-03-2018, 05:32 PM
gavin gavin is offline
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the no. on the drivers side is 2448779 but I cant find any listings for it. No manifold that I can find starts with a 2.

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Old 03-03-2018, 05:44 PM
gavin gavin is offline
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Opps that was dumb numbers are backwards due to mirror. Try 9778442 still cant find a listing.

  #25  
Old 03-03-2018, 06:10 PM
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Default ex manifold

Your manifold is probably #9773442. It was on 1964 tempest V8 cars-left side.

I heard the reason 63 tempests used a left (driver) side front dump exhaust manifold was because in 1963 Pontiac didn't have left side dump manifolds. They were all center dump to fit on the big cars, so Pontiac just used a right side exhaust manifold on the Tempests rather than cast a low production of left side rear dump ones.

The attached illustration shows the 63 Tempest exhaust system from the manifolds back. Part numbers show no difference between auto and stick cars.
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  #26  
Old 03-04-2018, 10:41 AM
AzMike AzMike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug View Post
Since you are using the 2-spd automatic, I assume you are keeping the rest of the ropeshaft drivetrain. Therefore, you will not have all the clutter of clutch linkage, etc.

Accordingly, as Tom mentioned, the drivetrain will not survive much thrashing by the more powerful 389 engine. That leads me to question the necessity of an expensive set of "performance" exhaust headers when whatever setup an original 326 dual exhaust system consisted of should be more than adequate.

I don't know exactly how the original 1963 326 dual exhaust setup was accomplished. For the 1963 Tempest 326, Hollanders lists a #541626L left side manifold and a #545466R right side manifold. (The #545466R was used on most all Pontiac and Tempest V8's in 63 and 64 including the 63 4cyl.) Hollanders list a #9773442L for 64 Tempest V8's and lists a #545470L for 63-64 Pontiac V8's. Hollander DID NOT list a different left side exhaust manifold for a DUAL exhaust 1963 326 car.

Of course the 63 326 #541626 L left side manifold was a one-of-a kind setup in that it exited toward the front of the engine. It appears that any 63-64 Pontiac V8 or 64 Tempest driver side exhaust manifold could be used on a 63 326 to direct exhaust towards the rear to facilitate a dual exhaust pipe.

It could be that the original 1963 326 dual exhaust system used the front-exiting #541626L left side manifold and front-of-engine crossover pipe and then redirected the left side exhaust back to the driver side with a crossover to the driver side after the engine to make the dual pipe. Since the dual exhaust was part of the 1963 326HO engine package which was available in both manual and automatic cars, it is unclear how they could have accommodated a rear-exit left side manifold with the clutch linkage cars.

It might be possible to use a #545470L rear exiting manifold and a flex pipe stainless steel exhaust tube elbow connector joint to make a left side manifold setup for a dual setup.

I seem to recall that the old 3-tube "Blackjack" headers for early GTO's would fit nicely in a V8 63 Tempest. I don't know if those type headers are available now but back in the day they were quite inexpensive. (If you check them out and would be interested in some, I have a buddy that has a new set of them he bought several years ago for a 64 GTO.)

Good luck.
We estimate the 389 ( out of a 63 Catalina) will produce about 325 hp. Will the ring and pinion hold up to that with normal driving?

  #27  
Old 03-04-2018, 12:32 PM
Doug Doug is offline
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The highest rating for a 63 389 4bbl engine was 303hp @430ft/lb torque.

Except for the 326HO engine, the highest rated hp for a 63 326 4bbl engine was 260hp @352ft/lb torque. The 326HO engine (4bl and dual exhaust) was rated at 280hp @355ft/lb torque.

The standard 64 GTO 389 4bl engine was rated at 325hp@428ft/lb torque.

It appears that your 63 389 has about the same hp and torque as a standard 64 GTO 4bl engine. Accordingly, your engine has about 25% more hp and about 22% more torque than a standard 4bbl 326 engine.

Obviously, a light-on-the-pedal driven 1963 Tempest car wouldn’t know the difference between a 389 and a 326. However, even in NORMAL driving, one occasionally will “push down on the pedal, kick it in passing gear, accelerate quickly, etc”. It is then that the higher torque of a 389 will exact a toll on the small differential gears. The weakness of the small geared transaxle showed up early on, even in the 326 cars.

I have an acquaintance in southern WV that has a 63 Tempest car with a 421 engine and the original automatic transmission transaxle setup. He has frequently driven the car on 800 mile round-trips to Norwalk numerous times over the years. I don’t recall him having any trouble with it but I’m sure he babies the car at all times. (The car was built by a wealthy automotive enthusiast person in California several years ago and has been discussed in a few articles.)

I suggest that you buy an extra set of gears for your car.

Good luck!

  #28  
Old 03-04-2018, 01:17 PM
higgenslake higgenslake is offline
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I've had my 468 auto transaxle for 30 years. I "floor" it every chance I get.

  #29  
Old 03-04-2018, 01:43 PM
AzMike AzMike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by higgenslake View Post
I've had my 468 auto transaxle for 30 years. I "floor" it every chance I get.
I'm glad to hear that. I was just hoping I hadn't made a huge mistake. I was always told the transmission was plent strong to handle the extra power. I didn't even think about the ring and pinion.

  #30  
Old 03-04-2018, 02:09 PM
Doug Doug is offline
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Cool flooring?

Quote:
Originally Posted by higgenslake View Post
I've had my 468 auto transaxle for 30 years. I "floor" it every chance I get.
What say ye Tom?

  #31  
Old 03-04-2018, 03:25 PM
tom s tom s is offline
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The thing that hurts them is oversize sticky tires from standing starts.Had a friend with a 63 421 370 HP engine in it from 1964 on.Never hurt it.They are all fine untill their not.Like I said,the trans is pretty solid,the R&P not so much.With my 389 3 speed I broke the side of the trans case out of it and had to drive it home in 3rd gear all the way.On that car the 3 speed was the weakest link.Some have found the rope shaft the weal link,most the R&P.Tom

  #32  
Old 12-31-2019, 04:12 PM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
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Other day, was examining 2 pair of round port 2" primary headers that are for sale. One pair were Hooker '68-72 A-body, other set were 2nd GenBird, Hedman's with removable collectors, real nice shape.

Will either of these sets of roundport headers somewhat easily fit in a '63 LeMans with oem crossmember, even if a few tubes need slight revisions? The '68-72 A-body set were going to need little more work, thinking they might be the way to go, I've sectioned out pieces & repaired boogeed up headers before. Engine is a forged internal 447, Speedmaster heads, roller cam yet to be sourced... (just a friendly diversion)

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  #33  
Old 12-31-2019, 09:00 PM
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If there shaped like this they won't fit.
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  #34  
Old 01-01-2020, 02:46 AM
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Not sure if this helps any, but I used a passenger side 3 tube header from my 67 GTO on my 63 LeMans 4 banger, 2speed transaxle. Fit fine, as I recall.

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