[Bliss_Street]

I just drove home a 1967 Pontiac Catalina 2 door hardtop, and I haven't stopped smiling. But I have a lot of questions.

The main one being: is there a sister B body that is better supported for parts/information? I see that OPGI.com lists the '67 Bonneville as using a few of the same parts, is it safe to assume that most of the suspension parts are interchangeable?

And another is where should I start a build log? The HAMB kicked me out because my 46yo car isn't classic enough, lol.

Thanks in advance.

[Mister Pontiac]

Originally Posted by Bliss_Street

I just drove home a 1967 Pontiac Catalina 2 door hardtop, and I haven't stopped smiling. But I have a lot of questions.

The main one being: is there a sister B body that is better supported for parts/information? I see that OPGI.com lists the '67 Bonneville as using a few of the same parts, is it safe to assume that most of the suspension parts are interchangeable?

And another is where should I start a build log? The HAMB kicked me out because my 46yo car isn't classic enough, lol.

Thanks in advance.

Congrats on such a great purchase! I wouldn't mind a '67 big car in my stable either.

Yes the Bonne will have a lot of interchangeable parts, likely all of the suspension, but the Bonne's are physically longer cars. I believe the majority of the differences are body related there. Perhaps a '68 Cat would have the same mechanicals as your '67 Cat. They should be essentially identical, but that also likely means they are equally supported on the aftermarket. Hopefully others who are more knowledgeable will chime in here.

As for a build log, I think you're in the right place here. Don't worry about the HAMB board for this beauty.

Congrats again!

[68Prix]

nice car, 68 will be hit and miss with parts. Let me know more what you are looking for and I will be glad to help.

[OZZIEVILLE 67 2 door]

I think I am safe in saying the Cat is same as the Bonneville..
The Bonneville is longer in the rear quarters which means the the trunk lid is bigger..
The Bonneville is longer than the 67 wagon..
All the suspension will be the same,etc. etc.

John L.

Also welcome to the DARKSIDE

[stevep]

I just got a '67 Catalina 4 door that I will be parting out.

[Txbobcat]

I owned a 67 catalina convertible for about 6 years. It was one of the best cars we ever owned pulling 20 miles per gallon with the 2 barrel carb. Unfortunately I traded it in on a 71 Grandville wagon that got 11 mpg. I kept that for one month and traded it in on a 74 Lemans sport that we kept for 6 years

[Stuart]

Nice car! It looks real clean. There may be minor differences in spring rates from one model to the next, but otherwise the suspension and most mechanical parts will be the same for any big Pontiac of that year.

[Pontiacdaver]

Originally Posted by stevep

I just got a '67 Catalina 4 door that I will be parting out.

Steve, did you buy the one in Smoke Signals? It was up your way, just too far for me.

Dave

[Bliss_Street]

I thought I would post this here, just to keep it centralized.

Hello everyone, a month and a half ago brought home a 1967 Pontiac Catalina 2 door. Which makes me ever so slightly insane. But, there is a story here. I thought you all might be interested. I was at that start of planning a Lotus 7 scratch build. From welding the frame through racing it. There have been a few iterations of donors and exact dimensions, but it was going to be a Locost. That plan was was egged on every time I saw a Solstice or a Cobra. Then, my wife suddenly wanted something more....concrete, which led to awesomeness.

First a bit of background: Way back in 2006, God smiled upon me, guided my wife out of consulting and into the employ of a car manufacturer. Given the number of questions she had, I suggested we buy an older car and slowly work through it. You know, for the educational value . And she went for it. We were living in Dubai at the time and sadly only had a car port. Between the heat, humidity and dust, there was to be no car. We then moved to South Africa, where we kept an eye out for a victim, but given the import duties on parts and scarcity of interesting cars; I channeled my Man interests into blade smithing. A little over a year ago we returned to the US after a decade abroad and for the first year we barely mentioned the car. Turns out this was a wise move, since we only were in Atlanta for 11 months. In January we were relocated to Bowling Green, KY. And we made a condition of buying a house that there be a 3rd garage bay for a project and a fenced in yard for the dogs.

Since my Wife wasn't so keen on a scratch build I got onto Craigslist and the HAMB. At first I was looking at a '53 Pontiac shell in WI. but that was a lot of work and driving for just a shell. Then I was looking at a '42 Chevy Business Coupe, but it was pricey and had no engine. Then, I spotted Gabby. It was close by, and reasonably priced. I called and arranged to test drive it. It.Was.Fantastic. I was smiling for days. We closed on the house and the next Monday we bought the car. I still bought a welder, but a scratch build was on hold indefinitely. Not even a roadster build could match the sheer crazy of a '67 monster. I mean, no joke, the car is 18ft long!

Here are the 3 pics off of the CL ad that caught my eye. The angry chicken front, the swooping lines and the long trunk line.



It ran, it was local, had a clear title, and was reasonably priced. But here is the part that will probably raise a few blood pressures here, lol: we have never worked on cars. Oh we know about cars, and we know how things work, but we have never done it. I can tell you that intelligence, passion, the ability to follow instructions, and connect dots gets you a long way. So we aren't put off by the work, or having to figure everything out. I mean, seriously, how hard could it be?

Every project needs a vision and a plan or else it wallows in bad primer hell and never gets done. Our vision is two fold. 1.Get the car into safe, daily driving condition; learning every step of the way and have a blast doing it. 2. Start into a larger scale restoration, with classy and correct upgrades along the way.

There is a small time issue as well, we simple aren't sure how long we will be living here or where we will be assigned next. We assume we will be here in Kentucky for 2 years. So, we don't want to do a frame off restoration and be left with a mess should we have to move suddenly to China or where ever. The longest we want Gabby out of commission is during the engine rebuild, which is planned for the winter or 2013/14. Long term, we would like to have disk brakes up front, an updated suspension, and a rock solid engine that can move her with a delightful noise.

The start? Well she has drum brakes on all 4 corners. The pedal is very stiff and there simply isn't the corresponding braking action. (yes they are drum brakes, but I know they can work better. right now she needs a 1/4 mile to stop.) So we'll be rebuilding the drums and cylinders first. Then the suspension with new shocks and (if needed) new coils. Right now when you turn left, out the right you can see the ground. A lady her age shouldn't have the indignity of wallowing like that. After that, new wheels and tires. The ones she has barely hold air and are cracking. I know this will need 15" wheels, but she really needs modern shoes. A V8 like the 400 deserves better then the trailer tires she has now.

Then she will be insured, registered and hopefully driven a bit while we get ready for the engine to come out. As I pulled her into the garage, she spit some oil out of the left hand exhaust. That has me worried, and thinking the engine might come out sooner then winter. Update: she is insured and registered. I drove her to get a full fuel tank the other day, in the rain no less


So here is what I do know about the car. It was made in NJ in the first week of December. It was bought in 1967 driven a bit, and then sat in a car port for 30 years in NY. The wife of the owner finally passed in 2002 and the kids gave to the red cross. They in turn sent to be crushed for scrap metal. Luckily a guy at the yard bought it for next to nothing and changed the oil and occasionally drove it. At the time of that sale in April 2002 the milage was recorded at 24,800 miles. He recorded milage and basic maintenance. The last log was an oil change in June 2008 at 35,860 miles. It came with him to KY where it moved to the last owner, who wanted to hot rod it, but ended up raising 2 of his grandkids and had no time or funds. And yesterday, she had her title transfered and drove to our new home. And that is where we are now. I'm told that the 37,600 miles are all original. That's pretty good for a 46 year old car. I do not know if the engine was ever rebuilt, but it's looking rather nasty, so the assumption is not.

I want to know more about her. I *think* she is a 400cid/6.6L with a 2 brl carburetor. I know she is a 3 speed, the TH350 I assume. She's a B body. She has a bad paint job at the moment, but is the original color underneath it. There is AC and PS, no brake booster. Can anyone fill in anything based on the plate in the engine bay? Update: I have some of that deciphered now, but not all of it.



I hope you all will stay with us as we start this exciting journey as we learn, grow and reconnect with American automotive history!

[Bliss_Street]

This is how I found her sitting, on cracked 215/75/14's. She is a dirty girl, but with a near pristine interior.



On the drive home. Yes, she has no plates here. Yes, this is illegal. No, you should not do this unless you live in the rural southern US. (I'm still confused how this is the 'South' since we are one state away from Canada, but you don't argue with married cousins.)



The interior is fantastic for a 47yo car, just dirty. There will need to be some upgrades to the gauges, since I need to know more about the engine's condition. The the fuel sender is out, so petrol will need to be filled often and guessed-i-mated based on milage for a while. Luckily, my first car was '72 Super Beetle and never had a working fuel gauge. You get good at this very quickly. We will be getting a 4 barrel carburetor to replace the one she has, but we are going to stick with the Quadrajet and a side project will be to source and rebuild one so it's ready when the engine goes back in.



You'd think that on a car this large, the engine would be lonely in the bay, but it fills the whole thing. There is a lot of grime and oil. A lot of age related cracking rubber and worn bushings. Not anything we weren't expecting. Well, I was rather shocked when my wife insisted we rebuild the AC unit. I was planning on just removing and saving myself the head ache. Now, I need to learn a whole new skill set. YAY!



Her booty. The one bad rust through is in the trunk pan, which luckily has good after market support for patches. I'll be cutting out the whole thing and welding in a new one.



That classic 'angry chicken' look!

[Bliss_Street]

Every time I 'had' to move her I needed to jump start the car. Given the awesome weather here, and my burning desire to actually drive her around town, I took her over to Advanced Autoparts. They ran a quick diagnostic on the alternator and battery. Alternator good, battery bad. So I sprang for a new one with 800 cold crank amps vs. the 600 she came to me with. Flawless since the, she fires right up.

So I have spent the last 10 running every errand I can think of, just to get out and on the road.

We went to the vet:


And to the hardware store:


All sorts of places. Even a beer run. One thing that drove me crazy was the the accelerator pedal was sticky. It went from idle to 40% power right away, needing a lot of pressure to get it to move. the result was a few stalls and a frightened kids from the noise. I removed the air cleaner and liberally doused all the moving parts of the linkage with lube. Smooth as butter, although I noticed a lot of the washers and tiny bushings were cracking. *sigh* more to rebuild. Now the throttle has a steady linear pull to it, no more having to goose it just to maneuver in a parking lot.

Next, I took a long look a the steering. It has a lot of slop in it. The power steering is working, but there is a definite 'float' to the car and it take 1 to 2 inches of turn to correct it and start to feel her move. It also it makes it hard to correct the strong pull to the left under moderate braking. I jacked her up and (safely) slid under her. WOW. Wrong move. I mentally spent $2000 in bushings and bits just looking. There isn't a single rubber piece that looks even remotely in good condition. I think my front brake job just turned into a complete front end rebuild. Still researching all that, but it looks like a PST kit is in order.

[Bliss_Street]

Time to get started.

After about an hour of swearing, literally jumping up and down on the tire iron; I finally got the lug nuts to break loose and lifted the front end up onto jack stands. It seems at some point some idiot painted the steel wheel without removing it from the hub, along with some serious corrosion.



With the wheels off, it was time to remove the brake drums. Let me tell you, I busted a gut trying to get them off. So, as one does, I searched the suspension threads. The consensus was that I need to hit it hard with a large hammer. So I did.



Nothing. More swearing. More searching. Consensus? add heat, then beat it harder.



Nothing. Lots of swearing. and I do mean lots. My father was a drill sergeant and my mom is German. So I mean real, creative, the-dogs-didn't-even-know-that-was-possible kind of swearing.

I ended up pulling the cotter pin and loosening the castle nut to remove the entire hub, conical bearing and drum. It later reveals itself to be that the drum and hub are one piece, and the shop manual showing a 2 piece unit was......incorrect.



So there are the guts, all exposed and nasty. It took a bit of doing, but I got it all disassembled. All except the brake hose going into the wheel cylinder.



That was on fast and in a position on the back side of the shield where it was impossible to get to. So, logic says follow the line to the next connection and disconnect it there, right? yeah. That led me to a bracket on the outer frame, above which the hard line was screwed into the hose. Perfect. Except that the hose end was corroded to the bracket. And held in by not one, but 2 clips. one being a fragile rusty C-clip.



So off comes the bracket, hose, grime and rust.



yay.

First the easy, because seeing progress makes me happy. I cleaned, cleaned, and degreased the shield. Then wire wheeled it, then cleaned it, masked off the parts that rubbed against the shoes and the grease seal.



Since brake fluid eats normal paint, I used a groovy brake grey from Eastwood. Turned out very nice.



^ I texted that to my wife, who promptly reminded me that she wanted to do the other side.



This is the grimy wheel cylinder. nasty.

Remove the rubber seals to see what the cups look like. One end



the other end



At this point my heart sank a bit. If it was this bad, chances are the cylinder walls were rusted and pitted. Which means I would need a new one and they aren't being made any more. I know this, because the rear ones are and I have brand new ones. Fear not, forge ahead.



all apart, now to soak them and get them cleaned up and degreased so I can see how bad it is.

No Pitting, no rust. YES. Just crud. Dirt I can handle.



Cleaned the inside and got all the gunk out, wire brushed the outside and degreased. Taped off the ends and the ports.



WOW, shiny! Now to rebuild the inners.......

and that is where I see that Napa Auto sold me a pair of 1 1/8" kits and my cylinders are 1 3/16". So I'll have to swap them out and continue.....

[Bliss_Street]

A bit of a frustration rant/small update.

I'm sort of stuck. I have 1 3/16" wheel cylinders. All available databases used to order parts say I'm supposed to have 1 1/8". So when I ordered the rebuild kits, that is what I got. NAPA Auto was happy to take them back, but their part system only has part numbers with no specs. So I dug around a bit and found a website that sells new complete 1 3/16" cylinders. But mine are good and I'm stubborn. There is also the $36.00 for new ones vs. $5 for the kits. I'm not cheap, but I know I can spend that money on parts I need, not replacing parts I have. After some digging, I found that a 1967 Cadillac Eldorado uses 1 3/16" wheel cylinders, and have 2 rebuild kits on order (not paid for yet). So I'm hoping the end boots fit.

Then I find out that the US domestic model Catalina used 1 1/8", but the Canadian model used 1 3/16". When I spoke to the NAPA guys, they assumed they were the same diameter. So the parts DO exist. But now I have other parts on the way. Big deal? no, not really. If I were doing this in South Africa, I wouldn't be so lucky to have multiple parts sources that can order overnight. Frustrating? yes. Was I expecting this when I handed a wad of cash to the guy for a 47yo car? yes. Well, maybe more in the engine, not so much the brakes.

So my update is mainly limited to small parts. Puttering around basically.

I did get the last of the book shelves painted and built, which freed up my welding/build table. I was able to get all the parts off the garage floor and sweep all the grime and rust flakes up. Also got all the loose tools organized back into the tool chest. Things like this make my wife happy, and that is key here.



Wire brushed the brake hose retention bracket and clip.



and got them painted.



I also got the parts separated into ones that are being replaced by the brake re pack kit, and the ones I need to reuse. Reused parts on the left, trashed ones on the right.



Cleaned up and painted



and the new springs and pivots. They stay in the bag until they are needed.



The downside to still being in that "design and build your new work space" is that I need to be extra careful with small parts. I have a work bench, tool stands, and a new anvil stand that all need to be fabricated to give me the room to fully unpack and organize.

So after that I hung curtain rods, washed one of the persian rugs and made fajitas. Hopefully I will have the proper sized kits this morning and can start re assembling the passenger side. And then my wife will start on the driver's side. I expect it to go faster, since the part will be correct and the process known. I fully expect to have the brakes bled by the weekend and set the bushing kit ordered. At which point it will have all come apart again. yay.

[Bliss_Street]

Car Detective Update:

In 1966 Pontiac used wheel cylinders in 1 3/16" bore.
In 1967 Pontiac used wheel cylinders in 1 1/8" bore....with the option of a steel lined cylinder in 1 3/16" bore.

So that solves the mystery. Cast iron bores are more prone to rusting and deep pitting, hence all the recommendations to buy new ones. Mine is in great condition and 1 3/16", leading me to believe I have the steel lined ones. Looking at this options list, it seems I might have the 'ride and handling' package. What ever that means, if someone knows, please tell me! I do know I have the fender skirts, which are in a box.

So, I found an O'reillly's with an actual paper catalogue the size of 5 phone books, and I have the proper rebuild kits on order. They should be here around 2:30pm. WOOT!

Frustrations aside, I love the sleuthing and finding out more about the car. I just hope they fit.

[indetrucks]

keep it up bud! that car is bad ass

[Bliss_Street]

Originally Posted by indetrucks

keep it up bud! that car is bad ass

Thanks!

[stevep]

Originally Posted by Pontiacdaver

Steve, did you buy the one in Smoke Signals? It was up your way, just too far for me.

Dave

I saw it on Craigs list. It's Blue.

[Keith Vrabec]

Welcome. Nice ride and if you're going for new rims go for 16's ...For better tire selection. Torque Thrust II rims look real nice on that car, thoug I prefer original torque thrusts personally.

A few hints...Front ends can be quite gratifying to rebuild, I"ve done a few and here's what I found out. Mostly 69-72 GP a couple big cars as well.

Rubber bushings are great, poly ones ride hard and squeek a lot. Poly not worth the trouble on a big car...

Add an Addco fat front sway bar.

Good gas shocks. KYB GR2 ride the best, Gas A Justs are a bit hard.

Hi rate springs are unnecessary, and for the rear cargo coils give the best look (slighly higher than front end) for rear springs and ride well.

Rear bar not really necessary.

So here's how I drive my cars and set them up this way....I run a lot of bumpy curvy hilly roads. Hard suspension tends to make the car bounce on the potholes, keeping it supple allows for less "pot hole skitter" which has the car jumping sideways when you hit the hole when suspension is too firm. (Being a Lotus fan, I'm guessing you might appreciate Colin Chapman's attitude toward a supple predictable suspension. Jackie Stewart always said "don't get the suspension in a tizzy...") With no rear bar car will have slight understeer, so you will be putting more steering as the car goes through the corner in the same direction, rather that correcting toward opposite direction to catch the rear. Someguys like the rear bar, but for the big caar I think it not worth the trouble.

Faster ratio steering box is OK, but may affect turning radius. The 69-72 GP is same as A body, so I use a 70 GTO quick ratio application box, available at NAPA. Not sure where the stops are on that to compare to a B body, perhaps someone can comment.

Disc brake conversions are out there, Stainless Steel Brake I think may have one. Just get all the new stuff to save yourself headaches. BUt you might find the drums when properly rebuilt and adjusted to be just fine. But you just have to leave more room and drive it like an old car not a new car.

You probably have the THM 400 trans, pan should look like Texas...

Your heads are probably low compression so stick with them for today's gas. 4bbl may be unnecessary...2 bbl gets good mileage and probably same performance below 3800 rpm.

HEI mightbe a conversion you want to do but points are fine, I use both without any issues.

New battery cables always a good idea for a driver. 0 or 00 for Pontiac is good idea just be careful on routing the wires near the exhaust.

Change the rubber fuel hose. Also no rubber hose past the fuel pump...

Halogen headlamps, adjusted well.

Dual exhaust 2.5 inch. Avoid headers since they are quite the headache for the most part, they drag low on Pontiac and usually leak a lot.

Just get the starter rebuilt now.

Recore the radiator esp in the AC car. Pontiac temp issues are addressed all over the boards here, and of course if you need help with that, we got you covered.

And FINALLY....GO TO PONTIAC NATIONALS IN NORWALK OHIO FIRST WEEKEND AUGUST SO WE CAN MEET YOU. The big car guys hang out at that show. It's the place to go.

What did I miss???

KV

[Keith Vrabec]

Oh and pm me about front spring removal...scary but with good tools and technique, done safely...

[Bliss_Street]

Originally Posted by Keith Vrabec

snip

Thanks for all that, it's good to know I can ask questions when I get to the various stages of the build.