[Transporter]

looking for some options, building a tube chassis 63 tempest, bought a front and mid-plate from Butler.

Mid-plate is a no-brainer, but the front plate might be an issue. I have the motor set down in the car pretty far, (wanted to run a flat hood) and the front plate ends are below the bottom of my frame rail.

Yes, I could weld some down tabs off the bottom of the frame, but I really wanted to have something "higher" to catch the top to my firewall down tubes.

Butler does make a higher mount that goes behind the WP, anything I should know before ordering that plate?

Thanks Stan

[cgeise]

Make your own and but it between the t/cover and engine

[Transporter]

Originally Posted by cgeise

Make your own and but it between the t/cover and engine

I was just looking at what I have again, thinking about cutting the "ears" off just outside of the timing cover and flipping them UP.

That would gain me about 8" the drivers side looks to be no problem, on the passenger side I will have to rebend the ear in the other direction to get around the lower water hose.

Off to the shop, lol

Thanks Stan

[vin63]

Originally Posted by cgeise

Make your own and but it between the t/cover and engine

X2...I made one a long time ago (when there weren't any commercially available) for a previous car that I re-used here for my truck project...

[xitmnt2]

Stan,

You may want to give Robert a call at AllPontiac. He cut me a front plate for my 63 Lemans taken from a template I sent him. I had the same problem with the ears being to low because I lowered the motor also. I set my crankshaft centerline to 18" from ground level. Hope the pic helps.

[R 70 Judge]

Originally Posted by Transporter

looking for some options, building a tube chassis 63 tempest, bought a front and mid-plate from Butler.

Mid-plate is a no-brainer, but the front plate might be an issue. I have the motor set down in the car pretty far, (wanted to run a flat hood) and the front plate ends are below the bottom of my frame rail.

Yes, I could weld some down tabs off the bottom of the frame, but I really wanted to have something "higher" to catch the top to my firewall down tubes.

Butler does make a higher mount that goes behind the WP, anything I should know before ordering that plate?

Thanks Stan

Which front plate are you using? I have my engine set down and back in my '63 and the allpontiac standard plate fit very well in my stock framerails. If i didn't have a rack and pinion it would hit the steering box though.

[grnmnstr]

You should set the crank height first, for the speed you want to run. Yes, you will be limited by the chassis, but get it as close as you can. You can get that info from a chassis book or somebody on YB should could tell you.

Also, I agree with the others on the type of front plate. Between the timing cover and block. I don't get a warm and fuzzy about the ones that bolt to the water pump. JMO.

[455-4+1]

The belt drive plates have plenty of meat up high if you wanted to go that way

We wanted to tie the boat engine in as much as possible to hewlp with the high lateral G's (+ / - 4) and also added gussets for fore and aft. The plate was high enough (even after trimming) to bolt to the heads.

An earlier home made version we ran was steel (behind timing cover) and bridged below the timing cover. You may not have room for something like this ??

[Transporter]

Originally Posted by xitmnt2

Stan,

You may want to give Robert a call at AllPontiac. He cut me a front plate for my 63 Lemans taken from a template I sent him. I had the same problem with the ears being to low because I lowered the motor also. I set my crankshaft centerline to 18" from ground level. Hope the pic helps.

That looks like it worked out well, but since I already have the std. version of that plate I will try and mod it this weekend, I also have to be a bit careful with drop as I am running a straight axle front end.

Originally Posted by R 70 Judge

Which front plate are you using? I have my engine set down and back in my '63 and the allpontiac standard plate fit very well in my stock framerails. If i didn't have a rack and pinion it would hit the steering box though.

I'm running that somewhat universal Butler/AP plate that bolts to the motor with the four lower TC cover bolts, I do have a steering box (vega) BUT since it's a straight axle deal, my pitman arm is facing backwards toward the firewall, and the crank pullies sit BEHIND that.

I'll try and get some pics up, asap.

Originally Posted by grnmnstr

You should set the crank height first, for the speed you want to run. Yes, you will be limited by the chassis, but get it as close as you can. You can get that info from a chassis book or somebody on YB should could tell you.

I have to admit, you lost me a bit? I positioned the motor for the ground clearance that I wanted (drop pan), for the set back I needed ( to get it behind the drag link) and also for the engine/tranny offset ( running a centered 9" pumpkin, not a centered pinion, so the drivetrain is 1.5" to the right or pass. side.

Could you expand on that for me a bit? Thanks Stan

Also, I agree with the others on the type of front plate. Between the timing cover and block. I don't get a warm and fuzzy about the ones that bolt to the water pump. JMO.

Do you mean the ones that bolt "behind" the WP, I would agree, mine uses the four bolts that go thru the lower cover and into the block.

Originally Posted by 455-4+1

The belt drive plates have plenty of meat up high if you wanted to go that way

We wanted to tie the boat engine in as much as possible to hewlp with the high lateral G's (+ / - 4) and also added gussets for fore and aft. The plate was high enough (even after trimming) to bolt to the heads.

An earlier home made version we ran was steel (behind timing cover) and bridged below the timing cover. You may not have room for something like this ??

I DO like you homemade unit, to be honest I like it better that what I have, but since I already have it, I'll see what I can come up with, as far as the belt plate units, I'm trying to keep the top of the motor as clean as possible.

This will be a street/strip car, so no sump pump, no A/C, no P/S , probably no vacuum pump, just an alt. and I 'may" run that off the driveshaft at the tranny.


I do appreciate all of the input and suggestions, I will try and get some pics up of what I am doing and what I wind up with, I think I have a pretty good idea, now I just have to mod the plate I have.

Probably this weekend.

Thanks again, Stan

[taff2]

I used a pair of 'elephant type ears' bolted to the timing cover on my previous combo without any problems, I wouldn't worry too much about the front plate,it just holds up the front of the engine if you have a midplate too. On the car I'm building for my son I've knocked up a 1 piece plate that bolts to the water pump and don't forsee any problems with it.

[grnmnstr]

It sounds like you are positioning the motor for convenience, not all out performance. Usually the faster you go, the lower the crankshaft height.

Yes, I prefer the plate between the timing cover and block, rather than the plate that sandwiches between the wp and timing cover.

[Transporter]

Originally Posted by grnmnstr

It sounds like you are positioning the motor for convenience, not all out performance. Usually the faster you go, the lower the crankshaft height.

Yes, I prefer the plate between the timing cover and block, rather than the plate that sandwiches between the wp and timing cover.

Yeah, the car will be closer to a gasser type knockoff, so getting the crank cl real low is a mute point.

This plate actually bolts to the outside of the lower front cover, it really doesn't touch the WP at all.

Curious, is setting the motor as low as possible to aid weight transfer, or more for aerodynamics?

Thx Stan

[BruceWilkie]

Raising the motor can aid weight transfer. Lowering the motor can sometimes allow the engine to be set back farther... possibly aiding weight transfer... However, lowering the motor allows lower hood lines which tends to improve aerodynamics.

[Transporter]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

Raising the motor can aid weight transfer. Lowering the motor can sometimes allow the engine to be set back farther... possibly aiding weight transfer... However, lowering the motor allows lower hood lines which tends to improve aerodynamics.

As it sits right now Bruce I am back about 8" from stock location, also with a mid rise 2x4 setup I WILL be able to run a flat hood.

But grnmstr is correct, I did set it where it is to a degree for convenience, I didn't want to run an offset driveshaft, I also though that by moving the motor to the right it would also balance out my weight a bit?

I also wanted to run a very straight forward steering setup.

In the end I tried to take as much into account as possible, but if the question is did I use some chassis builders formula then the answer is no.

[goatracer]

Originally Posted by Transporter

looking for some options, building a tube chassis 63 tempest, bought a front and mid-plate from Butler.

Mid-plate is a no-brainer, but the front plate might be an issue. I have the motor set down in the car pretty far, (wanted to run a flat hood) and the front plate ends are below the bottom of my frame rail.

Yes, I could weld some down tabs off the bottom of the frame, but I really wanted to have something "higher" to catch the top to my firewall down tubes.

Butler does make a higher mount that goes behind the WP, anything I should know before ordering that plate?

Thanks Stan

FWIW, when we ran the Pontiac motors in our mustang we used the AP motorplate. The ends of the plate sat well below the frame rails. It wasn't the best set up for this chassis, but it worked at the time. I did notice quite a bit of flex front -to-back, so had engine limiters installed to control the flex.

If we ever drop another Pontiac in this car, we'll be using a custom plate the mounts to the front bars/frame rails.

Bryan

[Transporter]

Originally Posted by goatracer

FWIW, when we ran the Pontiac motors in our mustang we used the AP motorplate. The ends of the plate sat well below the frame rails. It wasn't the best set up for this chassis, but it worked at the time. I did notice quite a bit of flex front -to-back, so had engine limiters installed to control the flex.

If we ever drop another Pontiac in this car, we'll be using a custom plate the mounts to the front bars/frame rails.

Bryan

Thanks Bryan, the flex is to a degree the reason I wanted to make sure that I could fasten at both the frame rail AND the down tube, that is about as rigid of a mount point as there will be in the front of this chassis.

I am planning on running a reinforced soft tranny mount and was hoping that could double as a fore/aft limiting device.

Again, thx for the reply, this is the first tube car I have built entirely from scratch, and it's easier to ask first than to cut/weld, oops, cut apart, move and reweld.

[SWEETJUDGE]

my motor plate is behind my water pump .... go to Facebook/hammertimeracing for pics

[Transporter]

Well, since so many of you guys took the time to share your opinions with me I thought it only right to let you see how it turned out, got off work about 10:00 am this morn, and got started with this project, wrapped it up about 1:00 pm and I am pretty happy with the results.

Let me know what you think, also BTW, I did take a ground to crank CL measurement and it will come it right at 16" by the time I'm done.

Again, thanks for all the help.

Stan

[Transporter]

The rest of them,

[LMSRACER]

Here's something that's coming down the pike in the near future from Competition Engineering. We'll be offering these for sale as soon as they become available.

It's just another option for the Pontiac Racers out there.
It's made from 6061 T-6 Aluminum in 0.250" Thickness.



NOTE: Timing Cover is Sold Seperately.........

Have a Good One,
Larry S.