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#1
08-27-2013, 02:27 AM
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Interesting port work. Think its effective?
Very interesting port work here. Considering how much work is involved I'd imagine it has to be worth something.
Thoughts?     
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James 1970 Trans Am Spotts Built 484" IA2, Highports, EFI Northwind Terminator X sequential EFI fabrication and suspension by https://www.funkhouserracecars.com/ |
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#2
08-27-2013, 02:49 AM
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wow. appears they would have been cast this way. would like to see flow bench results between these and others. I have no idea how effective these would work.
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#3
08-27-2013, 07:10 AM
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The 3rd one down, I like.
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John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
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#4
08-27-2013, 07:47 AM
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Yea it helps with fuel management in regards to the ports, but the dimples on the back side of the valve thing I am not so sure about?
At low valve lifts where very high velocity`s are taking place it may disrupt the flow more than it helps atomize the fuel. I cant say for sure as I have never done any testing with dimpled back Intake valves. I do leave my ported cast iron intake ports unpolshed, or just finished with a 40 grit roll. On ported aluminum heads I polish them and then go back in with a mid cut cast iron burr at get the wall finish I want to see. You need to use alot of lube to keep the Burr from loading up but I think its worth it on any full race motor, on others I just use the 40 grit sanding roll as a final finish.
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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
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#5
08-27-2013, 07:59 AM
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From what I recall Ernie Elliot did something similar to Bills engine, the one that lapped the field at Talladega.
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#6
08-27-2013, 09:42 AM
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I'd like to know how they did that...
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My Half AN Injun..... |
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#7
08-27-2013, 10:20 AM
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Looks like a "golfball port". They put those dimples in a golf ball to speed up airflow around the ball making it go further.....or something like that.....It's gota help a cylinder head!
I'm really curious to hear what guys like Bill,Jim,Gabby,Dan,and THEE Magic Man,and Stan have to say about this. Great thread!
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"You have to evaluate the past,Focus on the future,and that tells you what you have to do in the present"--Lou Holtz “It’s the process it takes to get to goals that sets us apart, the execution on every single play, one play,one life” Notre Dame Head Coach Marcus Freeman 69 GTO NHRA Super Street Car 2860lbs 10.890@157.08 MPH in Iowa in June’23 ,157.56 MPH in Gainesville in March ‘23 |
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#8
08-27-2013, 10:35 AM
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A little birdie told me that jim and bill tried this on their cv1 stuff....curious
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EHTTFMF!  Being dead, it is not hard on you. You don't even know you're dead. It is hard on everyone else that is not dead. BEING STUPID WORKS THE SAME WAY! The rest of us suffer. |
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#9
08-27-2013, 10:49 AM
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I do not know if anyone is using this or not. But sometime ago Larry Meaux posted some results of A-B-A testing he had done where the port surface was not finished as smooth / polished as has been used netted both flow and HP increases.
Stan
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Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
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#10
08-27-2013, 11:00 AM
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Myth busters did do a series on the golf ball dimples applied to a car's exteriors surface and it did decrease the drag coeffciency of the surface, but at what costs?
hmm......
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#11
08-27-2013, 11:01 AM
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Golf ball dimples. Works for golf balls and Lance Armstrong. But why no before and after flow #'s?
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 68 Firebird, trying a q-jet now. 434/10.5:1/997's/240-242 HFT/4L80E/2800 Yank/3.42's/ Vintage Air/ 13.0 @105 mph 70 Lemans, 350/350, A/C, mostly stock 14 Ram CC, 5.7 Hemi, 8-speed, 3.92 lsd 97 Trans Am, HPP Aug 2012 http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...tiac_trans_am/ ***Sold*** |
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#12
08-27-2013, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Stan
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Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
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#13
08-27-2013, 11:30 AM
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Similar, a mention here in PHR magazine in the compustion chamber and piston tops:
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec.../photo_10.html Jim McFarland was a proponent of it and many have a lot of respect for him. Here in Circle Track magazine are a few tid bits: http://www.circletrack.com/enginetec...w/viewall.html And here..... Combustion Patterns: The Telltale Signs of Power...or the Lack Thereof http://mk3ukr-supra.net/Combustion%2....McFarland.pdf .
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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) 5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE Last edited by Steve C.; 08-27-2013 at 11:42 AM. |
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#14
08-27-2013, 12:28 PM
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Jim McFarland was a big proponent of it in areas with poor mixture-like the areas of the chamber that would be clean of any soot from running.
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Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
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#15
08-27-2013, 12:29 PM
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The dimples do nothing to increase cfm. We used them in the combustion chambers to excite the molecules. The problem with naturally aspirated 4 cycle combustion engines is they only burn about 40% of the fuel they ingest. If you can figure out a way to attach more fuel molecules with more O2 molecules. You will burn more fuel and make more power. So the theory with the dimples is to create more activity in the ports and or combustion chambers. By doing this in theory again we are trying to create little vortices which in turn creates molecule excitement. What this will hopefully do, is combine more fuel with more oxygen so that it can be burned more completely. When I done this to my EMC engine. We did not get to do back to back testing unfortunately to see if it really worked. I can tell you though that when we tore the engine down that the combustion chambers were very clean. They had very little carbon build up anywhere. The other thing we noticed was the amount of total timing the engine wanted was very low. I want to do more testing with this theory when I get a chance because I know there is something there. We did do this to a carb spacer on one of our customers limited class race car, and it picked up 1.2 tenths in the 1/4 with no other changes. So I know that it does produce positive results.
Don Johnston DCI MOTORSPORTS INC. 330-850-5050 shop 330-628-3354 cell Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air V Heads !!!!! |
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#16
08-27-2013, 01:27 PM
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__________________
John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
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#17
08-27-2013, 01:36 PM
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John, you have to be a member.
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#18
08-27-2013, 01:40 PM
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Better to be a member there than where some of these guys go.
 Here's a Speed Talk link, but I don't know if you have to be a member there either. Texturing They seem to have a lot of people that don't believe in it though. (about like some on here, afraid to do whatever it takes)
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John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
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#19
08-28-2013, 08:58 AM
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very interesting.... cant be cheap.... is there any flow testing?
THIS IS THE ADVANCEMENTS IN RACING... get on board or get behind
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1969 Early 01D JUDGE #s MATCH RA III 4 Spd (Concours Restored) 1969 PRO STREET GTO 2500 lbs. ALL ALUMINUM 505 1969 RARE All Glass GTO (FOR SALE) YOU NEED THIS AC Cobra Kit Car 521 670 HP/715 Trq LOOKING FOR V PARTS !!!!!!!!!!!! |
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#20
08-28-2013, 09:37 AM
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The theory behind this is changing the effect of air on the boundary layer.
Back in the early days of porting, intake and exhaust ports were smoothed to a mirror like finish. Guys like Joe Mondello and others learned that reducing the mirror finish on the intake port by introducing a texture within the port reduced fuel separation. With today’s CNC porting systems, special finishes can be added to the port, but it comes with restrictions. The tool paths at specific locations inside the cylinder heads are difficult to reach. The short turn on the Pontiac turn down exhaust can be one of these area’s along with others. The smaller area’s need smaller tooling which in turn creates it’s own issues. When the tooling and tool paths are changed, it can leave transitions which can disrupt airflow. Some head porters feel improvements can be made while others have seen little or no change. This is not something that can be measured on a flow bench. Much of this is also influenced by air speed, fuel type and many other factors making the actual results very hard to quantify. I hand finish all of my intake ports with a 60 grit texture and a 320 grit texture on the exhaust. I’ve attached a link to the NASA web site for those who want to learn more. http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/boundlay.html Calvin Hill Hill Performance 708-250-7420 |
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