[bignate]

I'm afraid of the responses I'd get in the Judge forum so I'll post it here.

Some of you know about my mostly stock '70 Judge driver. I just put a down
payment on a set of ported #614's that will eventually be put on a motor for it.
Well, I'm kicking around the idea of building a (550ish? horse) 10:1 pump gas motor
and spraying the crap out of it. I want to drive it to Norwalk when it's done,
then run some "in the 10's" passes and hopefully drive it home; provided nothing
breaks. In order to do that I'd have to put a cage in it. I already plan to upgrade
all the suspension (basically the same setup B-man used under his '64, only I'll
use the Currie 10" rear.)

I've already decided that my Judge will never have aluminum heads, blowers,
or turbos. So I'd go with the blower in a bottle.

So what are everybody's opinions on putting a cage in a real Judge in this
day and age? There is a scrap yard near me that has a decent '72 body I could
get all the panels I'd have to cut up, out of (provided I'd want to put it back to
stock some day.) The original drivetrain will be put on a shelf because it still
is the #'s motor and trans. I'll definetly be doing every upgrade but the cage
and nitrous at some point. I am just unsure about going all the way. When all
is said and done it is my car and I have no plans to sell it, so I'm not so much
worried about resale.


Tentative motor I'm thinking about:
-IA II block (hopefully aluminum with 1/2" shorter decks)
-Forged or Billet 3.75" crank (w/e I can afford)
-Good rods probably Oliver 6.635" BBC with SBC rod journal
-Good forged nitrous pistons with modern ring pack 4.310" bore
--set around 10.25:1 compression
-S.D. "Stump Puller" or a little more cam (maybe "Old Faithful)
-280ish CFM #614's
-Hoping to have Marcella build me a manifold for a Dominator under modified
ram air pans
-2 kits of nitrous w/ all the proper controls
-MSD 6 programmable
-if I can get an oil pan built to fit stock frame with a Titan pump I will

The drivetrain will be built to handle the power, and being a stick car the
juice won't be in right at launch but would hope to ramp it in as soon as
the tires would allow it.

I really want to shut up the street/strip LS and Ruststang guys around here!

Opinion's appreciated
Nate

[Scott Roberts]

Don't race the judge..I would get another car. The judge is just too cool and valuable in stock form to make into a race car...jmho. its your car!

[goatless]

It's your car, do what you want to do. But... I'm with Scott, build a clone if you want to hot rod it! It just makes no sense to modify a high dollar car.

That being said, I do know quite a few guys that race real rare cars in Pure Stock and factory appearing races. But at least in those cases the cars still look like they did from the factory...

[J GLASGO]

OK I will say it. Bad move,sell the Judge,build a clone.

[Old Goat Racer]

I put a roll bar in my 65 GTO 15 years ago. I cut it out 4 years ago.
The car is NOT # matching by any means.
But the scars are still on the frame.

Buy a Lemans, clone it, paint it the same color as your Judge & have twice the fun.

[Rob B]

I know its your car and you don't plan on selling it anytime soon but I agree with everyone else to find another and clone it, especially since your judge is still #'s matching. Its just not right to take a car as rare as yours is now and potentially ruin it. What about the 72 you can get all the panels from and give that car the "treatment"??? I'd make it an exact clone of your current car. Always wanted to do that. Ultimately its your car and decision.

[tc]

Build your dream car Judge clone for this. For my '65 I said it's mine, I can do what I want and I'll never sell it. I wish I never used the torch and welder on it when I was 19 years old.

[bignate]

Originally Posted by J GLASGO

OK I will say it. Bad move,sell the Judge,build a clone.

Definitely won't sell it anytime soon.

Regardless where I am at is... I for sure will be building a motor for it. It depends on the use of nitrous how exotic I get. As I said earlier I will as I can afford it be updating and upgrading the suspension, brakes, and rear axle. I also will be using a Supercase Muncie trans with a GV overdrive.

Also as far as removing a cage at a later date goes, we've done it before on customer cars. If you are careful and use proper techniques it can be removed with no hint of it ever being there before.

My dad agrees with all you guys with the clone. The last owner, who bought the car in 1976, is basically egging me on to get in the 10s. He thinks it'd be cool as heck.

At this point I really want IV heads under the hood and I want the #s parts on a shelf in the back of my shop. The way I look at it right now (and I think the last owner did too) is, what's the point of having a GTO Judge if you're not going to use it as originally intended by Pontiac... To whip some Ford Chevy Mopar @$$!!!

Nate

[stockapearing455]

I would do a cage with the kicker bars that follow the rear window. Not the ones that go through the back seat. This car wouldn't be my first choice for a cage, but if plan on keeping it, I wouldn't be opposed to it. All of these cars are WORTH MONEY! Lemans, tempest, gto and especially yours. I wouldn't go buying a judge just to turn into a race car, but if I had it. U can always cut the cage out. Also to I like sumped stock fuel tanks. You don't need a rear firewall with this And can run big fuel lines. I believe u can make a killer street/ strip car without butchering it. Stock suspension can be fast.

[J.C.you]

Sometime ago on RJ there was a guy with a cut up real 70 Judge race car. He was in the NE I believe.
I am with the others, find a clone. Probably find one turn key.

[Probird]

I agree with everyone else. You can build that car to run 10's without the cage or rollbar. You just can't run it at an NHRA track. You CAN run it on the street that way. Build it to run just above the rollbar rule and race it like that.... and if all your looking for at the track is a number, spray it once, get your easy 10 and let them ask you to slow it back down. If you want a car to race at the track it's FAR cheaper to buy one already done than build one a piece at a time.

[mysticmissle]

Ill be different here. If it was mine id probably sell it and build one. But if its what you want to do then DO IT. You only live once. I have a friend that wanted to tub his 69 ss 396 nova. He had the car for 20 yrs at the time, I said sell it and buy one or keep it and buy one its just a nova BUT it was HIS NOVA. He bought a tubbed out project car and took all the goodies in his car and drives the crap out of it, that was probably 15 yrs ago... If thats how you feel about your car then just do it. None of these guys will give you what its worth. Keep in your thoughts that it WILL lower its sale.value later on, but if its not about the money....screw it! Its yours have.fun with it however you deem best.

[GTO Dan]

I agree with Mystic and Probird. Some very good advise there.

It's just a car, do what makes you happy, life is short. You want an investment, I would suggest land and/or an investment portfolio.

[GTO JOHN]

Nate, what happened to the '70 LeMans body I sold you to build "the clone"? I would definetly build a second car and race that one.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

Don't race the judge..I would get another car. The judge is just too cool and valuable in stock form to make into a race car...jmho. its your car!

I agree. Leave it street and build it to go 11.50 in the best weather so a bar is not required, because once you start modifying it to go racing, you won't stop, trust me. No sense in doing that to a Judge.

[Skip Fix]

Back to the motor a 10:1 614 headed motor is not going to run on pump gas. It will want more octane and will pick up HP with more octane. BTDT

[Pearlbluebird]

A friend has a 70 triple black Judge he raced for years. His car was pump gas and running 11.5's. I said for years he should just build a dedicated race car so he wouldn't twist up the Judge anymore. So we set out for that new project and built it. That Judge is now going back to full street duty and he has cars he can now race and cruise. Best of both worlds.

[SWEETJUDGE]

get a lemans & if you want to beat the street guys... you need better heads than 40 year old factory units.... JMO & figure your direction 10:1 is NOT a race motor & 15:1 is not a street motor. Im all for the aluminum block as you cant lift an aftermarket iron block WAY TOO HEAVY & have to make MORE power to move it.... my all aluminum 505 combo is a killer......

[indetrucks]

Don't do it... nope, no way

[bignate]

Ok, decision is made; no cage no juice no slicks. Just gunna build a killer street IV motor, and do the suspension/brakes.

John, the '70 LeMans body has been stripped of almost all internal sheet metal and is just waiting for me to get the funds to start building a chassis and cage. This winter I'm gunna pull the nose off my Judge so dad can build me a copy in aluminum for the LeMans project.

Nate