[ChiliPepperGarage]

My first car (in 1972) was a '65 GTO. I'm a bit older now and a little bigger so I'm going with what I call my GTO XL, a '64 2+2. 389, 4 speed car.

I've had this car for a few years now and it has been on the back burner because I retired, moved to rural northern NV and have a couple other projects going ('63&1/2 Galaxie 500 XL, 390, 4 speed and a '34 Ford three window coupe).

I actually put this car up for sale recently and even took it to Hot August Nights to try to sell it. Had some interest but no cash offers so put it back in the garage. Once it was all tucked away I kept thinking how nice the interior is and how much I love the dash in it. Then I looked on here (hadn't logged in for quite some time) and saw this thread:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=796110

It got me motivated to go through my car and "get r done" as Larry would say.

So now I'm trying to figure out how to proceed. Here's the deal: the car has just under 73K miles, runs pretty good but was a 2 barrel car and some one has put a Q-jet with adapter on it. It has a pretty bad rear main leak but other than that, seems like a solid motor.

Interior is in excellent condition. Really doesn't need anything done to it.

It has the 8 lug wheels (I have a complete spare set too) and power brakes which work very well (it will put you through the windshield if you slam on the brakes!). It is a manual steering car. I figured I'd convert it to power but it actually steers pretty easy unless you try to turn the wheel when stopped dead.

Car came with original window sticker, original title, owners manual with Ident-O-Plate, etc. the guy I got it from said he bought it from the original owner (I have no way to verify this). The car came from Indiana.

Now about the body: it has a couple dings but no major dents. The bad part is that it is pretty rusty underneath and in the fenders and floors. It is fixable but will require some work. I have a parts car with good sheet metal and frame to use.

The frame has pretty bad surface rust. My thoughts were to remove the body and then see if I can salvage the frame, otherwise I will use the parts car frame.

Not sure what to do with the motor. I'd like to hot rod it a bit but nothing too radical (my Galaxie motor is a 450HP 390), maybe some head work and a cam and of course I have to do something about the intake and carb. I'd love to run a tri-power but they sure are pricey. Might just stick with a single 4 barrel or maybe go FI Tech. Oh, the guy I got it from told me the exhaust manifolds are Pontiac performance manifolds. He gave me the stock manifolds with the car too.

I have to address the rear main leak too. I figured I'd pull the pan and do the seal but not sure if I should do a complete lower end rebuild or not. I guess I'll do a leakdown on it before I pull it out and then see how the cylinders look when I pull the heads. Speaking of heads, not sure if I should have mine done (maybe a porting and clean up with new hardened seats for unleaded gas) or get different ones. Could use some input on that.

It has a posi rear but not sure of what gears but will be checking to find out. It is a big heavy car with a 4 speed so I'd like a little gear in it, maybe a 3.73 or 4.10. I don't know what trans it has yet, Saginaw or BW. I have contemplated going with a 5 or 6 speed but not sure if I want to do that conversion ($ and hassle of fit). I will most likely add A/C with an under dash period correct looking unit.

So that leads me to my next dilemma, as an all original, low mileage car, what is this thing worth? Part of me wants to leave it like it is but I have a hard time with the rust and I'd like more performance out of it.

If I fix all the rusty panels and have all new frame with suspension components will I be wasting a lot of money and effort as far as value? What about paint color? I don't mind the original color but it is a little on the bland side. I'd like to go with a darker metalic blue or maybe black with a heavy flake blue roof. Am I better off painting it the original color?

Does anyone know if the shifter is original? I'm assuming it is because the rest of the car is but it is a weird very short shifter. I actually have to lean forward to shift it because it is so short. I'll definitely be replacing it with a longer one.

Anyway, I wanted to get this build thread started and get input from you all. Here are some photos:

[ChiliPepperGarage]

Interior photos.

[ChiliPepperGarage]

Rust!

I have all the good panels on the parts car including the door.

[MUSLCAH]

Nice...I’d drive that !!

[ChiliPepperGarage]

Frame rust.

It does have a new gas tank.

[MUSLCAH]

Is that a Nevada car...like all its life ?..it looks like a New England Cah...well ,not really ...lol

[ChiliPepperGarage]

Originally Posted by MUSLCAH

Is that a Nevada car...like all its life ?..it looks like a New England Cah

No. It came from Indiana. I think it was stored in a dirt floor garage because it is rusty underneath but top side is pretty nice.

I'm familiar with New England rust as I came from Keene, NH (actually Westmoreland, Swanzey and Spofford).

[ChiliPepperGarage]

8 lugs.

I'm torn on running these 8 lugs or going with a 15" old school straight spoke TQ or maybe slotted aluminum's.

I don't like the limited 14" tire selection for 8 lugs. I recall a guy that makes 15" wheels for the 8 lugs but I think they were pretty pricey if I remember correctly.

[MUSLCAH]

Originally Posted by ChiliPepperGarage

No. It came from Indiana. I think it was stored in a dirt floor garage because it is rusty underneath but top side is pretty nice.

I'm familiar with New England rust as I came from Keene, NH (actually Westmoreland, Swanzey and Spofford).

Right where Ames Pontiac is .

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by ChiliPepperGarage

I don't like the limited 14" tire selection for 8 lugs. I recall a guy that makes 15" wheels for the 8 lugs but I think they were pretty pricey if I remember correctly.

BOP sells them, $210/ea. http://www.bopengineering.com/pontiac_full_size.shtml If you have a set of spare wheels, an alternative is to find someone who can take the centers out and fit them to new 15" hoops.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Being the car is from here in the Hoosier State, you need to make a very thorough rust inspection. The frame in my ‘64 is in the same condition but is structural sound. If you do a frame off you can have the frame blasted and re-painted or powder coated. For its age, it’s not in bad condition.

[61 389-348]

Originally Posted by ChiliPepperGarage

8 lugs.

I'm torn on running these 8 lugs or going with a 15" old school straight spoke TQ or maybe slotted aluminum's.

I don't like the limited 14" tire selection for 8 lugs. I recall a guy that makes 15" wheels for the 8 lugs but I think they were pretty pricey if I remember correctly.

And 16s"



Diamond Racing sold through BOP Engineering

[ChiliPepperGarage]

Originally Posted by 61 389-348

And 16s"



Diamond Racing sold through BOP Engineering

Wow, that looks really nice! Do you have a non-close up photo that shows the whole car with those wheels?

Looks like they have lots of size options too. I wonder what is the largest wheel and tire combination I could fit in the wheel well.

I have an adapter plate but I think it is for holding the spare in the trunk, not for mounting tires. Where can I get the tire mounting adapter plate. I didn't see one on BOP's website.

[Stuart]

I think Ames sells the mounting plate, but with modern tire changing machines it isn't necessary - they grab the outer hoop of the wheel and don't need a center hold down.

Years ago, before he passed Dave Bennett posted about the biggest tires that would fit on 1963/1964 cars. Here's one discussion, you can find others by searching on his screen name TININDN. http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=463035 Also, check the sticky thread at the top of this section - it's mainly about 1965/1966 cars but there's some info on the earlier models in there as well.

[61 389-348]

I went 16" because its just about as hard to find a 15" performance oriented tire that's as tall as the original 8.55x14 that were on an A/C car new. I did 225/70x15 Firehawk Indys for my 61, but those tires are no longer produced. What I ended up with for this one is a car that was sure to be selected for an episode of 'Pimp my Ride'. At first to me it was a little over the top. I got used to it, but it is a little donk.

I drive fast and corner hard so I wanted a tire that was pretty good at that plus rode nicely and quietly. I went with a Michelin Primacy in a 235/60x16 and had the redlines done by Diamondback Classics. As you can see in the first pic below, I still have plenty of clearance.

Plus originally I did big sway bars front and rear, HD springs, Bilsteins front, KYB Gas-adjusts on the rear and just did a Lares 970 fast ratio (but still variable ratio) steering gear. The faster steering gear was the icing on the cake. Still variable ratio so not nervous on center and much heavier than stock … more than I thought it would be. The result of all of this is that its a very pleasant comfortable street driver, but you can take just about any advisory corner limit and double it. Cloverleaf type freeway ramp marked 30 and do 60, etc.

This is a far more composed car than my 2017 Buick Lacrosse with the 245/40x20s and very close to my G8. The G8 can exhibit some snap oversteer at the limit where the 63 starts a catchable arc, tail first, when you're beyond the limit. The Bilsteins in front and KYBs in the rear return a modicum of luxury car ride with the slow up and down movement in the rear, similar to how Mercedes tunes its large cars. Too firm with Bilsteins on all fours though. I can't recommend these mods enough if you're not going for a points show car.

Anyway, as far as hold down plates for the 8-lugs, I have three. I have the GM device that cover up part of the tire in the trunk that was the holddown for most b and c body GM cars. Then I have the 4 bolt balance / tire changing plate plus another that has slots for all 8 lugs. I recently saw the 4 bolt hold down plate for sale on one of the Pontiac sites. Ok, I found it in the Ames catalog, P21 on page 272. I have both PT170 and PT 170C.

I don't need it for balance purposes on the rear as I balance both tire / wheel and drum as one unit. You can do the same with the front hub / tire / wheel if you can find a balancer that has a 28mm shaft instead of the more common 40mm. I just found a tire store that has a 28mm, but I haven't done this yet on the front, just the rear.




Rear bar is noticeable, but not too much more than any other FE3 or F41 equipped GM B or C body

[ChiliPepperGarage]

That's a beautiful car and those wheels look great! Looks like a pretty good option for me to go with on my car. Thanks for posting.

[61 389-348]

Originally Posted by ChiliPepperGarage

That's a beautiful car and those wheels look great! Looks like a pretty good option for me to go with on my car. Thanks for posting.

Thanks. I did 15s on my 61, made by Stockton Wheel about 15 years ago, but the supply of 15" performance oriented tires is pretty much history. 15s looked better than stock IMO, and frankly, no one noticed that I had done anything. IIRC, 15" trim rings that looked exactly like the original 14" came from a 1940 Ford. I also had Diamondback Classics do a 1960 width whitewall (1/2" wide than 61) as the car is shell tone ivory and wore those wide whites nicely.

So this is another option if you can do a 225/70x15 that's a decent tire.