[69 RA GTO]

Guys, I had someone contact me with their Judge's information for my registry and they asked me if their Judge could have been the first one built. While I suspect that it is not the first judge built for 69 it does appear to be a very early built car with a tag code of 01B and a order number of 00001

I know some of you guys are really good with the build sheets, ect so what are your thoughts

Tim

[johnta1]

It went to zone office 1st, then to Allen Pontiac.
It is a 'Pattern' Judge but it is #000017.
Jan. 9th date, probably one of the first but not the 1st I'd say.
(especially at Framington?)
Possibly the 640th GTO down the line?

What is the body #?
(000589?)



I'm sure BVZ can give more details.

[johnta1]

With that 000001 it may have been the 1st at Judge Framington?

[GTO JOHN]

Tim,

That is the earliest Judge vin I have seen out of Framingham and the 01B cowl tag build date is obviously the earliest as well.

The PHS shows dealer order # 00017 however the build sheet shows order # 00001. Interesting and as John stated it may be the first Judge out of Framingham.

All that said, it COULD be the first Judge built until an earlier one is found.

John

[charles bledsoe]

With regards to the PHS paper work, what does ADV.ASSN.COL mean? His shows 027 for the code and mine which is built in Freemont shows a code of 237. His OPTIONAL LOC also has the code of 027 and mine has the code of 237. Just curious as to what ADV.ASSN.COL and OPTIONAL LOC mean and why both cars show different codes. My car is a 01D Freemont built Judge
Thanks.

[MikeNoun]

Charles, it's explained on my website: http://www.musclecarfilms.com/Pontiac_Invoice.html

[charles bledsoe]

Thanks Mike!! Great site, marked it in my favorites. Is the difference in his code 027 and mine 237 because of location? His in Framingham and mine in Freemont?

[Held for Ransom]

Looks to me that the end of the 00001 has washed out the 7 (or been doctored). As you can see, the FRAMINGHAM PLANT is not all there either.

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by Held for Ransom

Looks to me that the end of the 00001 has washed out the 7 (or been doctored). As you can see, the FRAMINGHAM PLANT is not all there either.

Thanks for saying that! I could not make sense of it so I did not comment before. Maybe that is right (not sure). So, the order number in that box on the build sheet (I cannot read the words from the scan though.) and the number on the PHS invoice may be counting Judges? Or might they be counting zone cars? Would there have been many more zone cars so that is not a possibility? I'm just asking questions.

I have never been sure what those low numbers on the PHS were really counting for these first zone Judges.

But if these numbers match, the numbers may be done in build order since the number originates on the build sheet. There could have been 17 Judges built fairly quickly when production started I guess.

I look forward to some more comments.

[MikeNoun]

Originally Posted by charles bledsoe

Thanks Mike!! Great site, marked it in my favorites. Is the difference in his code 027 and mine 237 because of location? His in Framingham and mine in Freemont?

Yes, the ADV.ASSN.COL code usually coincided with the dealer code. There are a few exceptions where I've seen the codes do not match. The dealer may have chosen to advertise in another area, possibly because they were just across a state line, and the next closest city was in the next state, or perhaps they were just outside the imaginary line that Pontiac drew up to separate zones.

As for the first Judge, I would imagine that the first one produced would have been at the Pontiac plant. A quality control check, along with labor time necessary for the application of stripes, wing, etc. were probably done before production scheduling and the necessary assembly steps were sent out to the other plants.

Mike

[69 RA GTO]

Mike, I might have thought the same thing but the Pontiac assembly plant did not start making GTO/Judge's until mid production year as they were busy building the new body style Grand Prix, ect but who knows for sure

Very Nice website Mike as I like all the information you have on your site so great job !!!

Thanks for all the comments everyone as this Judge seems to be an early Judge but just how early.

Tim

[MikeNoun]

Tim, very good point! I'm not sure where the first one was built, but I would have assumed since the Pontiac plant was indeed making GTO's, it would have made the most sense to build the first one there. They produced 849 Judges in January 1969.

Thank you for the thumbs-up on my website! Always like to help out whenever I can.

Mike

[johnta1]

I glanced through some of my PHS' and never found a 'pattern' Judge in the Pontiac plant?

Found A, B, G, some R's and Z's.
Also found some 'duplicate' pattern #'s, so it must have been for each plant.
So there was probably a pattern # 17 in all the plants that made them.

If they made 2000, then each of the plants making them would have made around 400?
(or less if Pontiac plant made pattern Judges)

[charles bledsoe]

What constitutes a "Pattern Judge"? Not counting CR paint, little to no options, Rally II minus trim rings/black tires, is it a combination of numbers and letters in the various blocks on the PHS? I'm guessing the Pattern Judges were the first 2000 built? From what I read not many CR Judges were built after the first 2000, is this true?

How can you tell if you have one of the Pattern Judges? Were they all built in January?

[Held for Ransom]

http://www.forums.maxperformanceinc....d.php?t=461212

I posted this thread link in your Judge thread Charles.

[charles bledsoe]

Thanks HFR! What an excellent post!! Mine is one of the pattern judges built in Fremont 01D and has 00060 in the code. Mine though does not have power disk breaks. Everything else is like all the other pattern cars. I wonder why it was built without Pdb?

[Bet Winner]

That was probably the best Judge thread ever!

Charles, some of the pattern cars were slightly different. I don't believe anyone knows why. It might have been optional for the factories to drop an option that was in short supply on zone cars--just a guess on my part.

[charles bledsoe]

Yes! It needs to be a sticky, it would alleviate a lot of questions from folks like me, who are just now acquiring their Judge and wondering what the PHS is telling them. Thanks for being patient and guiding me thru all the questions I had when looking to purchase the car. You guys on this forum are extremely helpful with your wealth of knowledge on the Judge. Is there a book out there that speaks just to the Judge? I find all this very fascinating and enjoy reading all the information you guys have researched. Thanks again!!

CB

[Bet Winner]

I don't know of a Judge book. If there was one, it would probably have a bunch of errors in it! lol But a good one with great pictures might sell.

[MikeNoun]

The build sheet posted by Tim (Judge Registry) shows a 01-09 build. The earliest I have seen is an 01-04 build from Fremont.

Recently I found some internal documents at the Pontiac Museum, and asked Tim Dye if it was ok to discuss here.

Internal memos show they produced 1000 pattern cars in Carousel Red.

1969 Judge Production
--------------------------
January production = 849
February production = 1,288
March production = 1,765
April production = 1,095
May production = 808

The above figures include Canadian and export shipments.

April production dropped from March due to a hold on Ram Air engines to correct a durability problem. By early May, they estimated that 3,000 Judges had actually been sold, with 1,500 in dealer stock. May production dropped over April due to the issue with the Ram Air engines, coupled with a strike.

The build-out schedule for June 1969 was 759 units, and for July 1969 they scheduled 272 units. The July figure included anticipated August production at Baltimore and Lakewood.

Mike