[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by john marcella

Good to hear you say that About the shocks.
Cuz from my point of view you kind of got a lot of work to do on that, Not bashing just an observation. The rear is going into extension when it shouldn't/ way Too early and too much. Possibly reacting to the side wall ,recoiling from the hit? Not sure.
I would Tighten the extension way up on the rear. But if it gets worse From tightening up the extension it's probably recoiling from the sidewall. At that point you probably wanna go to the front and stiffen up the extension on the front So the car doesn't pitch so fast to the rear. This has a drastic effect on how much you wad the tire up.
Just went through all this crapp with my car at the end of last year. This crap aint easy.

Thanks for input, i agree theres work to be done on the suspension. I changed the cam (went smaller.....thanks Don) last year and jetted up and it turn into an animal. Wasn't prepared for it, the only thing i could do at the time was mess with the rear springs (I was at the drag strip racing). Shocks and Springs are Dinosaurs.....the added power magnified it. Thanks again!


GTO George

[Jack Gifford]

Thanks for posting George. Slow-motion certainly allows a better view of car's behavior.

[twooldgoats]

Great video, and great car---I've seen it run in person at Norwalk and watched you go rounds. If it was easy, even Tom would do it.

Jim

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by twooldgoats

If it was easy, even Tom would do it.

Jim

Lol!

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by john marcella

Good to hear you say that About the shocks.
Cuz from my point of view you kind of got a lot of work to do on that, Not bashing just an observation. The rear is going into extension when it shouldn't/ way Too early and too much. Possibly reacting to the side wall ,recoiling from the hit? Not sure.
I would Tighten the extension way up on the rear. But if it gets worse From tightening up the extension it's probably recoiling from the sidewall. At that point you probably wanna go to the front and stiffen up the extension on the front So the car doesn't pitch so fast to the rear. This has a drastic effect on how much you wad the tire up.
Just went through all this crapp with my car at the end of last year. This crap aint easy.

Great insight John even though you're running and sb2 engine..lol just kidding..great combo and I understand why u went that route..
Good to hear real world experience from a racer like yourself as opposed to a b.s.know it all like........

[S/st 54]

I might have missed it somewhere but George is your car 4-link or ladder bar?
Anti roll bar or panhard bar?

You say your shocks are dinosaurs but there are guys that rebuild shocks and do a great job. The Fast Shock guys come to mind off the top of my head. Good guys up in Minnesota.

[Rob B]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

Actually the chassis is not flexing I need better/new shocks and springs in the back. It was worse on friday. Saturday I was making adjustments to the spring on the passenger side.....ran out of adjustment! My light was only a .018.....not great but good enough to beat the other guy!


GTO George

And you would have been -.018 if it wasn't for all the chassis issues!
Watch your video frame to frame and you can clearly see your left side tire is already 5-6"s in the air when the last yellow is going out and before the green. When the green hits, your almost at the maximum rise while the right side is getting plastered in to the pavement.
Time to put a little attention to not just the rear suspension but all 4 corners.

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by Rob B

And you would have been -.018 if it wasn't for all the chassis issues!
Watch your video frame to frame and you can clearly see your left side tire is already 5-6"s in the air when the last yellow is going out and before the green. When the green hits, your almost at the maximum rise while the right side is getting plastered in to the pavement.
Time to put a little attention to not just the rear suspension but all 4 corners.

Thats interesting I've never went frame by frame before. Looks like the whole chassis is lifting (not twisting) left to right because of the torque of the engine. I still think that rear shocks and springs will take care of most of it causing the front end to just lift together.....im not a chassis guy. The slicks are only turning about an 1/8 of a turn before the car is moving and the front end lifts........but ya, a BIG red light if BOTH front tires lift at there same time! which explains why i don't have more delay in my box!


GTO George

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by S/st 54

I might have missed it somewhere but George is your car 4-link or ladder bar?
Anti roll bar or panhard bar?

You say your shocks are dinosaurs but there are guys that rebuild shocks and do a great job. The Fast Shock guys come to mind off the top of my head. Good guys up in Minnesota.

I have a MASSIVE four link with a panhard bar. Ill get whatever I need to fix problem......1,100 foot pounds of torque causes all kinds of havoc (also worn out parts don't help)!



GTOGeorge

[john marcella]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

I have a MASSIVE four link with a panhard bar. Ill get whatever I need to fix problem......1,100 foot pounds of torque causes all kinds of havoc (also worn out parts don't help)!



GTOGeorge

Do you have anti roll bar? If not go BIG!

[Mark G]

Originally Posted by twooldgoats

Great video, and great car---I've seen it run in person at Norwalk and watched you go rounds. If it was easy, even Tom would do it.

Jim

Well said ...,,lol great job George car is a beast..

[grandville455]

Nice video!! There's defintely ET left in that launch!

[johnta1]

I have a MASSIVE four link with a panhard bar.

If it launched straight originally, I'd recheck the chassis setup.
Bars may need to be reset. Something may have bent or binding.
Or welds somewhere broke (frame connectors, axle tubes, etc)?

I think rechecking chassis setup is first then shocks are the last thing to work on.

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by twooldgoats

If it was easy, even Tom would do it.

Jim

Thats FUNNY.........I agree!!!


GTO George

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by johnta1

If it launched straight originally, I'd recheck the chassis setup.
Bars may need to be reset. Something may have bent or binding.
Or welds somewhere broke (frame connectors, axle tubes, etc)?

I think rechecking chassis setup is first then shocks are the last thing to work on.

Normally every time I put my car on my car hoist i check for broken welds, loose bolts/nuts, etc. Basically I put my car on the hoist after every race or two. I have a lot of checking on my car to do after the chassis re-cert in 2 weeks.



GTO George

[Rob B]

Like John said, go big on an anti roll bar!
If I remember correctly, your car always seemed to have a little detroit lean to it. at least when I've seen it driving thru there pits, a bar would help, fix that.
May want to find someone to go over your car with you to possibly give you a fresh idea or even a different perspective on what you think is/was right and then keep an OPEN MIND to what they say. I have an old friend who is a helluva fabricator, suspension guy and bracket racer who swore up and down we could solve a couple of issues with my car with the shocks, and we did.. to a point. But what I found is the down track characteristics of the car didn't make it difficult to drive, but just didn't feel right, more so IF I ever made a 1/4 mile pass. After doing some research on it, and almost smacking a wall on a junk track one night, I decided to put an anti roll bar on it. Worse case, I was out a little cash and a couple nights of my life. Best decision I ever made. Afterwards, I was able to equal out the shocks more, change a couple of other things which made the car even more consistent, now it will hook and go straight on a junk track, and actually kinda made it boring to drive.
Even though your car looks like its doing a jig when it leaves, it does do it consistently or at least your driving it consistently down the track. Just think how much easier it could be if you started to get a better handle on it?
Like Darby mentioned, your leaving just enough ET on the start that would probably get you in the 7's honestly!

Tom will spot you the $$$ for the changes needed!

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by Rob B

Like John said, go big on an anti roll bar!
If I remember correctly, your car always seemed to have a little detroit lean to it. at least when I've seen it driving thru there pits, a bar would help, fix that.
May want to find someone to go over your car with you to possibly give you a fresh idea or even a different perspective on what you think is/was right and then keep an OPEN MIND to what they say. I have an old friend who is a helluva fabricator, suspension guy and bracket racer who swore up and down we could solve a couple of issues with my car with the shocks, and we did.. to a point. But what I found is the down track characteristics of the car didn't make it difficult to drive, but just didn't feel right, more so IF I ever made a 1/4 mile pass. After doing some research on it, and almost smacking a wall on a junk track one night, I decided to put an anti roll bar on it. Worse case, I was out a little cash and a couple nights of my life. Best decision I ever made. Afterwards, I was able to equal out the shocks more, change a couple of other things which made the car even more consistent, now it will hook and go straight on a junk track, and actually kinda made it boring to drive.
Even though your car looks like its doing a jig when it leaves, it does do it consistently or at least your driving it consistently down the track. Just think how much easier it could be if you started to get a better handle on it?
Like Darby mentioned, your leaving just enough ET on the start that would probably get you in the 7's honestly!

Tom will spot you the $$$ for the changes needed!

Thanks! The last part was FUNNY!


GTO George

[mgarblik]

Good video George. Slow motion is a great way to see how the car is working. The car didn't get to where it is all at once, you adjusted your driving to compensate as things changed. So when you make "changes and improvements", a few red lights may be in your future, but it will be worth it. I remember about 6-7 years into running the Grocery Getter, as we made more and more power, some serious chassis issues developed. We were tire shaking badly and even broke some door hinges and cracked some body sheet metal. We tried all sort of fixes suggested by the "experts". For the most part, the situation just got worse. Then at an event we were at with Arnie Beswick, he hooked us up with an old friend of his who used to set-up Pro-Stock suspensions 20 years earlier. He crawled under our car with a tape measure and pushed and pulled on the bars, told us what adjustments to make and we tried them. The car instantly stopped tire shake and ran .2 seconds quicker. So the idea of a true expert looking at the car trackside, may not be a bad idea. Good luck this year. You certainly have 7 second power there, with some little chassis tweaks. BTW, the single biggest change that fixed our chassis was replacing the just slightly worn 4-link rod ends with really good new Aurora ends with a much higher PSI rating.

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Good video George. Slow motion is a great way to see how the car is working. The car didn't get to where it is all at once, you adjusted your driving to compensate as things changed. So when you make "changes and improvements", a few red lights may be in your future, but it will be worth it. I remember about 6-7 years into running the Grocery Getter, as we made more and more power, some serious chassis issues developed. We were tire shaking badly and even broke some door hinges and cracked some body sheet metal. We tried all sort of fixes suggested by the "experts". For the most part, the situation just got worse. Then at an event we were at with Arnie Beswick, he hooked us up with an old friend of his who used to set-up Pro-Stock suspensions 20 years earlier. He crawled under our car with a tape measure and pushed and pulled on the bars, told us what adjustments to make and we tried them. The car instantly stopped tire shake and ran .2 seconds quicker. So the idea of a true expert looking at the car trackside, may not be a bad idea. Good luck this year. You certainly have 7 second power there, with some little chassis tweaks. BTW, the single biggest change that fixed our chassis was replacing the just slightly worn 4-link rod ends with really good new Aurora ends with a much higher PSI rating.

Yea........my buddy took that video with his iPhone! I was making adjustments on the rear passenger side spring and wanted to see if it was helping......it was but ran out of adjustment. Thanks!


GTO George

[john marcella]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Read the whole thread, I watched the video and said the chassis was flexing.

Why it was flexing is not my problem or explaining that George might need to buy other parts to fix the issue. It is George's deal.

I made a comment and I agree if the parts are not doing the job even a well built Bickel chassis will have issues.

Everyone works with-in a budget. Nice video that George posted on his GTO.

Tom V.

Tom , Not dogging on you but. Doesn't seem like the chassees flexing. What happens on a 4 link cars the right rear actually gets sucked up into the body of the car, It's not from weight pitching to that corner Either. But rather weight will pitch to that corner as a result of the right rear getting sucked up into the body of the car. That's why an anti roll bar is so important on a 4 link car.
At least this is my understanding .

My big concern about what I saw was how the rear shock goes into extension. A 4 link car should not go into extension. It seems very clear to me that the reason it's going into extension is from the sidewall recoiling after it gets crushed. It's exactly what my car was doing. That big steam roller tire is the only thing that saving George right now. He could try and play the wheel speed game to get up on the tire and it would stop that but that's pretty tricky.
A 4 link car should pitch and set. George's car pitches and recoils. Right when that rear shock goes into extension it throws the weight back forward then gets light on the tire.
Like I said I'm working on the same problem on my car right now. I would have never caught it without shock sensors. Would you believe it takes almost 600' for that rear shock to calm down. Crazy !


Here is a video, not great but you can see the rear Go into extension Because of the recoil of the tire just after it got wadded up. Then it Pitches the weight back forward and throws the front down. It happens fast but it's enough to screw everything up.


https://youtu.be/q7LZ8K-FhRI