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#1
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Suspension / brake upgrade - 69 GTO
Decided to go through the suspension and brakes this winter, figured I’d post on here to get some feedback / input of others experience. Car is a 69 GTO and I run a pretty stout 455.
Rear axle is a Moser 12 bolt, factory boxed lowers, adjustable uppers, 1” factory sway bar and factory replacement springs. Drum brakes. Front is completely factory disc setup, control arms, etc. that’s in need of a rebuilt steering gear box. Any recommendations on a disc brake upgrade that would be better than the factory? Brands you like or ones to steer clear of? Like to try to maintain close to the same stance but improve handling and braking while maintaining the current 15” rally’s and decent ride. The car is not all original and was thinking of replaceing brakes, control arms, sway bars, springs up front. I’ve used UMI for the rear adjustable but wonder if anyone has advice on whether they’re stuff is good for the front. Saw a few kits on summit as well that may be an option, thoughts? Also read about a bracket that’s used to tie the rear differential upper to lower control arm together but can’t find this type of part, anyone know what it’s called? |
#2
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Meant to include a pic to share the current look/stance. Like I said, I don’t mind if it rides a little lower but still want comfortable ride.
Took the car for a ride today in the mountains as the leaves are changing, great pic opportunity. |
#3
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I would strongly suggest calling Mark at SC&C and have him set you up with a package that meets your needs.
That said, if it was me and I was doing this again, I’d go straight to the AFX spindle up front and run a corvette brake setup. If you like the ride quality and stance you have now, you can reuse your springs and shocks. The AFX spindle will drop your front ride height approximately half to 3/4 if an inch. From where the car sits now. Matched with a quality upper and lower control arm, you’re going to fix the wonder issues inherent in these cars and you’ll have loads more grip and turn in even with your current spring and shock package. Since the AFX spindle uses C5/C6 bearing packs you get ease of replacement parts and that doubles if you run the corvette brakes. The only problem there is the cost. It starts getting up there with the AFX spindle and corvette brake packages.
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-Jason 1969 Pontiac Firebird |
#4
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SC&C Stage II kit with stock 69 brakes and Hawk HPS pads - C5/6 stuff is nice but you need big rims for that. Use the money you save for a Turn One Delphi type steering box
Mark Last edited by Scarebird; 09-17-2018 at 07:22 PM. |
#5
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Thanks Jason and Mark! Appreciate the advice.
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#6
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Mark's point is correct, the Corvette stuff will require a minimum of a 17" wheel.
The stock type discs are adequate for most stuff except road course stuff. They stop well, but fade easy. For a street car, or drag racer, they're fine. You can put the same discs on the rear if you want to get rid of the rear drums. One thing I learned with the SC&C Street Comp 2+ that I have on my car is that although not included in the kit and "technically" not necessary, the SPC lower should be purchased as well. The SPC upper allows for so much more positive caster that the wheel needs to be re positioned in the wheel well to avoid a tire rub situation. This would be the case at around 5+ degrees of positive caster. You can run the factory lowers if you dial back the positive caster in the alignment a bit. The SPC lower also allows for some ride height adjustments with their spring perch shims. You can keep the factory ride height with both shims in place, or lower by up to an additional " by removing the two shims (1/2" each as measured at the wheel). If you like your stance now, you can dial out that 1/2" you'll drop with the lower tall ball joint by adding a height adjustment shim to the top spring perch. That would then maintain your current ride height. But yeah, give Mark at SC&C a call and let him know exactly what you're wanting from the car. Budget 2-3 hours for the phone call as he'll give you a fairly decent education is suspension design along the way. The best way that I can describe the change in handling and drive dynamics is that before, with just springs and a set of .5" tall ball joints in my factory upper control arms, the car had about enough grip around a corner that you'd need to hold on to the steering wheel decently. After the change with the addition of the new control arms, modern alignment and the front and rear helwig bars, holding on to the steering wheel alone is no longer an option. The factory seats won't cut it, you need heavy side bolstering. The grip and turn in is brutal.
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-Jason 1969 Pontiac Firebird |
#7
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Quote:
https://www.ridetech.com/application...-steering-box/ |
#8
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That's the one. Have one in the TA and it works amazing. Bought another for the Lemans.
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#9
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My current gear box is the close ratio version, is this similar? Just curious on your opinion as it’s a little pricey too.
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#10
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IIRC it is 2.3 turns lock to lock, but the feel is that of a new car with rack - nothing like the old Saginaw boxes...
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#11
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Quote:
Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#12
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The UMI stuff is really good quality and is competitively priced with the bigger names. I have been very happy with all my pieces. The wilwood D52 direct replacement calipers are a nice upgrade and will fit behind your stock wheel. We put them on a buddy’s Chevelle and they did make a slight difference over factory calipers and you save 30 pounds of weight to boot. I am using the global west knock off control arms you can buy on eBay for around 300 bucks. I had them out of the box laying on the ground directly beside my father in laws real global west arms and other than the stickers there was no discernible difference. I put proforged tall ball joints in them just because I didn’t want to use Chinese ball joints and because I wanted the tall ball joint benefit. I have all the UMI braces and swaybars. I even have the bumpsteer kit. My car is not on the road but if look fit and finish are any indication I am sure I will be thrilled. As far as steering boxes I bought an 86 Monte Carlo SS box and had the lee flare fitting adapters presses in so I could use my factory hose. The car was still on the road then and that difference was night and day. Oh yeah one more thing. With the global west knockoffs I called global west and acted like I had lost my instructions and told them I needed the alignment specs. They sent them and my alignment shop was able to hit them on the head. I am running factory ac delco shocks all the way around with ac springs in the rear and hotchkiss one inch springs in the front. Hope this helps
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468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior. |
#13
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Yeah, although 69. Wondering what it does, worth it?
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#14
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Absolutely necessary on a stick shift car. Keeps you from ripping the control arm mounts off the frame
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468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior. |
#15
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I've got an automatic, but I'm sure it hits just as hard as a stick.
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#16
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Quote:
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#17
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The guy that ran the speed shop I used early 70s(Randy Carter in Dallas) had a 65 Chevelle BBC crossram he ran in Mod/Prod. Stick car and ripped the rear mounts out one weekend at the track. It is a real potential with sticky tires.
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Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
#18
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I went with UMI parts when rebuilding the suspension on my El Camino. Tubular upper A arms with tall ball joints, Adjustable upper rears, 1 1/4" front and 1" rear sway bars. Stock lower arms front and rear. Added a Grand Cherokee steering box and had LEE steering go through it and the pump. New springs from NPD that dropped the car about an inch. The difference in steering and handling from stock is amazing.
UMI usually has 10% off sales around the holidays and all their parts are made in USA.
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Ed 1968 GTO (Thanks Mom) 2006 Silverado 2007 Cadillac SRX 2015 Chevy Express |
#19
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Quote:
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#20
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Quote:
http://umiperformance.com/catalog/in...ex&cPath=2_407 I have the front bar which mounts just under the sway bar. Supposedly it helps keep the front frame ends from spreading improving cornering etc. You may want to call LEE to have your original steering gear upgraded for a tighter torsion bar. I have a 30# bar in my ElCo and its the next best thing to manual steering on the highway while still providing assist at low speeds. They are pricy though. About $450 to upgrade and overhaul my Grand Cherokee box.
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Ed 1968 GTO (Thanks Mom) 2006 Silverado 2007 Cadillac SRX 2015 Chevy Express |
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