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Old 01-11-2018, 06:03 PM
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Default 65 2+2 421 HO Auto

I'm working on buying a 65 2+2 421 HO auto. Has the numbers matching motor. I would say at this time it's condition is a #3 car. What would a #2/1 car be worth? Would it take away from the value if I made it a 4 speed?
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1965 Pontiac 2+2 421 HO auto
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1968 Firebird 400 auto - sold
1967 Bonneville Brougham 2 dr. hardtop. 1969 AMC Rebel SST wagon-sold
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Old 01-11-2018, 06:38 PM
Tim john Tim john is offline
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What a great car and an extensive option list. Hope you get it !

Tim john---

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Old 01-11-2018, 07:15 PM
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Hard to say. Steve Snyder sold a black with white guts 65 2+2 HO car that needed some work for $16,000 ish last year, done? 30k? I think the 4 speed may help actually, but make sure the trans stays with the car for the next guy? thinking out loud.

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Old 01-11-2018, 08:23 PM
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I agree on the 4 speed. That’s the one thing that stands out, when you look inside. Nothing like driving a B body 4 speed!

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1965 Pontiac 2+2 421 HO auto
1967 Pontiac Grand Prix 428 4 speed- sold
1968 Firebird 400 auto - sold
1967 Bonneville Brougham 2 dr. hardtop. 1969 AMC Rebel SST wagon-sold
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:10 PM
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Here's a picture. Car will go back to factory stock.
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1965 Pontiac 2+2 421 HO auto
1967 Pontiac Grand Prix 428 4 speed- sold
1968 Firebird 400 auto - sold
1967 Bonneville Brougham 2 dr. hardtop. 1969 AMC Rebel SST wagon-sold
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:49 PM
fred jernejec fred jernejec is offline
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in my opinion that is the nicest year of all the 60s full size pontiacs. i have a 65 vert and i love it!! good luck in getting it! Fred

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Old 01-12-2018, 05:30 PM
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Bitchin ride! Keep us posted

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Old 01-12-2018, 11:09 PM
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Same color combo as one I restored way back in the 80's. Sure wish I had it back!

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Old 01-14-2018, 09:09 AM
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I do not think that making it a stick will detract from the value

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Old 01-14-2018, 09:38 AM
nmoreilly nmoreilly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim john View Post
What a great car and an extensive option list. Hope you get it !

Tim john---
Ditto, really nice !

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Old 01-14-2018, 10:03 AM
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I'm with those who feel 4 speed would actually add to the value.

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Old 01-14-2018, 11:32 AM
tom s tom s is offline
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The one at Meccum did not sell,dont know where the bidding ended.Tom

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Old 01-14-2018, 11:40 AM
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https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0118-31...tiac-catalina/

Says $27,500 for this 66. Looks like a nice one from the photos. Not sure if it is a real HO or not?? Great deal if it was IMO

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Old 01-14-2018, 11:44 AM
tom s tom s is offline
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this one
https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0118-31...c-catalina-22/

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Old 01-14-2018, 12:15 PM
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Don't know if this comes thru but here is a chart I did last year of a Collector Car pricing listing for a 66 2+2 . Prices for a 65 are a couple hundred or so better.
1966 CATALINA 2+2 421 engine 4bbl- automatic CONDITION
#5 #4 #3 #2 #1
CONDITION GUIDE DESCRIPTION VALUE Poor Fair Good Very good Excellent
#5 POOR: In need of complete restoration, but is complete and not a rust bucket beyond repair. May or may not run. Not roadworthy. $1,825 $1,825 $6,900 $14,275 $22,700 $33,800
#4 FAIR: runs and drives OK but needs work throughout the vehicle. Body shows signs of wear or previous restoration work. Any rust should be minimal and not in any structural areas. Cosmetics, body, and mechanics all need work to some degree.

$6,900
#3 GOOD: Presentable inside and out with some signs of wear. Not detailed but very clean. Body should be straight and solid with no apparent rust and absolutely no rust-through anywhere. Shiny, attractive paint but may have evidence of minor fading or checking or other imperfections. Runs and drives well. May need some minor mechanical or cosmetic work but is fully usable and enjoyable as is.
$14,275
#2 VERY GOOD: An extremely presentable vehicle showing minimal wear, or a well restored vehicle. Runs and drives smooth and tight. Needs no mechanical or cosmetic work. All areas (chassis not required) have been fully detailed. Beautiful to look at but clearly below a #1 vehicle.
$22,700
#1 EXCELLENT: A close to perfect original or a very well restored vehicle. Generally a body-off restoration, but a well done body-on restoration that has been extensively detailed may qualify. The vehicle is stunning to look at and any flaws are trivial and not readily apparent. Everything works as new. All equipment is original, NOS, or excellent quality reproductions. Note: cost no object concours restorations should be considered 1+ condition.

$33,800



421-376hp (V8-3x2V) add 35.00% $639 $2,415 $4,996 $7,945 $11,830
4spd manual trans add 5.00% $91 $345 $714 $583 $1,690
Air conditioning add 10.00% $183 $690 $1,428 $1,165 $3,380
Power windows add 3.00% $55 $207 $428 $350 $1,014
8-lug wheels add 5.00% $91 $345 $714 $583 $1,690
manual steering deduct -5.00% -$91 -$345 -$714 -$583 -$1,690
TOTALS $2,792 $10,557 $21,841 $32,742 $51,714

CONDITION #5 #4 #3 #2 #1

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Old 01-14-2018, 02:32 PM
Doug Doug is offline
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Last year I agonized on a 66 HO 4spd car in fair condition. I sorta justified in my mind of offering $12K but just couldn't do it!

See if this is easier to understand..................................

Don't know if this comes thru but here is a chart I did last year of a Collector Car pricing listing for a 66 2+2 . Prices overall for a 65 are a couple hundred or so better.


1966 CATALINA 2+2 421 engine 4bbl- automatic

CONDITION GUIDE Poor(#5), Fair (4), Good(#3) Very good (2) Excellent (1)

#5 POOR: In need of complete restoration, but is complete and not a rust bucket beyond repair. May or may not run. Not roadworthy. $1,825

#4 FAIR: runs and drives OK but needs work throughout the vehicle. Body shows signs of wear or previous restoration work. Any rust should be minimal and not in any structural areas. Cosmetics, body, and mechanics all need work to some degree. $6,900

#3 GOOD: Presentable inside and out with some signs of wear. Not detailed but very clean. Body should be straight and solid with no apparent rust and absolutely no rust-through anywhere. Shiny, attractive paint but may have evidence of minor fading or checking or other imperfections. Runs and drives well. May need some minor mechanical or cosmetic work but is fully usable and enjoyable as is. $14,275

#2 VERY GOOD: An extremely presentable vehicle showing minimal wear, or a well restored vehicle. Runs and drives smooth and tight. Needs no mechanical or cosmetic work. All areas (chassis not required) have been fully detailed. Beautiful to look at but clearly below a #1 vehicle. $22,700

#1 EXCELLENT: A close to perfect original or a very well restored vehicle. Generally a body-off restoration, but a well done body-on restoration that has been extensively detailed may qualify. The vehicle is stunning to look at and any flaws are trivial and not readily apparent. Everything works as new. All equipment is original, NOS, or excellent quality reproductions. Note: cost no object concours restorations should be considered 1+ condition. $33,800

ADD ONS AND DEDUCTS:

421-376hp (V8-3x2V) add 35.00%
$639(#5), $2,415(#4), $4,996(#3), $7,945(#2), $11,830(#1)

4spd manual trans add 5.00%
$91(#5), $345(#4), $714(#3), $583(#2) $1,690(#1)

Air conditioning add 10.00%
$183(#5), $690(#4), $1,428(#3), $1,165(#2), $3,380(#1)

Power windows add 3.00%
$55(#5), $207(#4), $428(#3), $350(#2), $1,014(#1)

8-lug wheels add 5.00%
$91(#5), $345(#4), $714(#3), $583(#2), $1,690(#1)

manual steering deduct -5.00%
-$91(#5), -$345(#4), -$714(#3), -$583(#2), -$1,690(#1)


GRAND TOTALS WITH ADDS AND DEDUCTS:
$2792(#5-POOR)
$10557(#4-FAIR)
$21841(#3-GOOD)
$32742(#2-VERY GOOD)
$51714(#1-EXCELLENT)

It appears that changing to a 4spd increases the value less than what the cost of the change is. Also, the respective air-non air auto cars had numerically lower rear end ratios than the manuals did. Since the car doesn’t appear to have air, it is a 3.08 rear which might not be a good fit with a 4spd. A non air 4spd car would have a 3.23 standard.

Keep us posted!

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Old 01-14-2018, 06:17 PM
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Thanks for all the input. On the build sheet looks like the axel ratio was a VJ? not sure what gear ratio that is? Also, G83 SPL AX/ lock Dif.?

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1965 Pontiac 2+2 421 HO auto
1967 Pontiac Grand Prix 428 4 speed- sold
1968 Firebird 400 auto - sold
1967 Bonneville Brougham 2 dr. hardtop. 1969 AMC Rebel SST wagon-sold
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Old 01-14-2018, 06:24 PM
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65 is different than 66, but am guessing VJ is 4:11 gears, very cool!!!

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Old 01-14-2018, 07:50 PM
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3.73

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...hlight=vj+posi

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Old 01-14-2018, 09:36 PM
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https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0118-31...tiac-catalina/

This 66 auto, with tripower just sold at Mecum in Kissimmee for around 25k. You can't tell much from the pictures, but it from the descriptions above it looks to be between a 2 and a 3. Sold very well then IMO.

As for as converting an automatic to a 4 speed, a lot of us older folks are getting to where it's hard (if not impossible) to drive a manual shift car. I've been in the market for a reasonable priced 65-6 2+2 with an auto for a while now. They are not easy to find unless you want a project. I'm over projects!

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