[toomanybirds]

Dick,

I think you are correct on all the details except for the 73 SD transmissions. The 73 SD cars came with M-20 wide ratio Muncies (2.52 1st gear). I have looked at numerous 73 SD's with M-20's and the literature supports this too.

The only exception to this is that I know of one early built 73 SD TA that came with an M-21. I have looked it over, it has the VIN stamped on the case, has the "B" stamping for M-21, and has the single ring input shaft for the 2.20 first gear. I believe this car to be an assembly line error.

The M-21 close ratio Muncie trans was available on the non-SD 73 Firebirds. It could be ordered with either the L78 400 4bbl or the L75 455 4bbl.

Some early 74 Firebirds were built with Muncie transmissions. I have a M-20 core trans with an early 74 Firebird VIN stamping. As you stated, they were replaced by the Borg Warner ST-10 about March of 1974. Also, the 4-speed was not available on the non-SD 455 in 1974, they were automatic trans only.

The M-22 close ratio Muncie was only used in Pontiacs in 71 and 72. I know all the 455 HO cars got the M-22, not sure if the non-HO 455's did also.

It is true that all the 74 SD-455 4 speed cars were Borg Warner transmissions with one possible exception. I know an owner who claims to have a 74 SD 4 speed TA built in October of 73, it would have to be a Muncie as the BW trans was not available yet. I have not looked at this car myself to verify this, so at this point I will call it a rumor. All other 74 SD-455 4 speed cars I know of were built with BW's after March 1974.

[superdutybob]

I agree with toomanybirds.

As far as a Muncie in a 74 SD-455 car, there are none shown in the SD Registry that were built prior to March 74. Of course this doesn't make it concrete because an early car may not be in the Registry.

Another belief is that a 74 could be ordered with either a close or wide ratio BW ST-10 which we have proven to be incorrect. All ST/10's put in 74 Pontiacs were of the "close ratio" configuration with a 2.43 first gear as opposed to the 2.64.

[rwinkles]

Great info, thanks guys!

[sd4me]

Rick, you sick man you. I cant believe you bought the red sd. Dave here with the white 73 sd in CT. Before you start the resto, lets get together and go for a rip! I'll bring along rick with his 71 and neil with the 70 1/2. We'll meet up at Blimpies!

It will be nice if Brewster posts some pics of his original sd, but you as the newbie has to post yours first! lets have a look at her. If your doing the motor over and I assume you will be returning it to stock, give Jim Taylor Engine Service in Phillipsburg, NJ. a call. Jims motors are going to be like fine art on of these days. I have several sources of nos parts too, so lets talk when we can get together.

Congrats on an awesome virgin...

Dave

[Brewster]

My 4-speed is a m-20 or a 21 can’t be sure but know it’s a Muncie. I check the tranny and post. However the 21 being a close ratio would seem wrong with the that non a/c gear in that car. Something doesn’t sound right so my money is she’s a m-20.
How is that virgin Dick? Is she ready to move to my garage after the Nationals?
Wish I could go but momma is ready to pop, and September 5th is to close for comfort level of any women.
Later,
Brew

[rwinkles]

"how is that virgin Dick" - Geez Bew, you don't have to tell everyone! On another subject, my "new" car will be at Norwalk for it's debut. Just have a couple of little things to finish up before hand. It looks pretty good, it's not by anymeans perfect like yours or a Tiemen job but it's better than that $85 grander that just sold IMHO. Too bad you won't get to see it, if you would get out a little more often maybe your wife wouldn't be pregnant all the time!!!

[critter]

SD registry? What's that? Be nice to see an update to the list I got several years ago. Frank, you out there?

Anybody got one with a vinyl top? Any one find someone with bad taste who would order such a beast?

Not a whole lot original on mine except the heads, VIN and internals. Original motor was long gone when I got it so I just race and drive and have fun.

[SD73]

Originally Posted by critter

SD registry? What's that? Be nice to see an update to the list I got several years ago. Frank, you out there?

Anybody got one with a vinyl top? Any one find someone with bad taste who would order such a beast?

Not a whole lot original on mine except the heads, VIN and internals. Original motor was long gone when I got it so I just race and drive and have fun.

http://www.sd455registry.com/455%20SD%20Registry.html

[critter]

Well I'll be darned. Thanks!

[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by toomanybirds

Dick,

The M-22 close ratio Muncie was only used in Pontiacs in 71 and 72. I know all the 455 HO cars got the M-22, not sure if the non-HO 455's did also.

Just to chime in concerning M22 usage.

Can't claim 100% knowledge concerning '71 models, but I have the '72 dealer order book and have studied the powertrain charts.

In 1972, and fairly certain this also applies to the 1971's as well, the M22 transmission was the only 4-speed available with the 455HO, and it was optional on the 400 4V engine.

As an example, I have a friend here in town who owns a completely original '71 Formula 400, M22 with a 3.73 posi - all factory. It's obviously a non-A/C car to have come with the 3.73 rear.

The lone transmission available on the 1971 D-port 455's was the M40 auto. Of course, the D-port 455 was unavailable on 1972 Formulas anyway.

[Brewster]

Hey Dick,
My trans is a PN# 6271516 (WD) and 1st gear is 2.52 wide ratio M-20 Muncie.
Hope this helps and maybe someday I rip it up with you and that RAIV.
I hope all is well and wish we could have got together this year. If any interest there is a big all Pontiac show August 12-13 in Geneva, ILL and will have the SD crew there. Your welcome at Evans, if you and Bob want more info give me a shout.
Later and dont forget to hit Bob.

[superdutybob]

First you invite me to come break bread with you and Evans and then you want to have me beaten about my head and shoulders. What gives?

By the way, I want to be there when you mix it up with Dick's RAlV Goat. I just can't see you thrashing on the SD 4 speed like that. I think you're all talk.

Don't forget to throw something at Evans for us!

[Brewster]

Your correct Bob, I'm dreaming about driving her and dont see that happening for sometime (if ever).
Bread gets me thirsty and thus need beer to wash it down with. So how about Geneva for some B&B ? think about it.
How is that car of yours, and you going to Norwalk with it and Dick ?
Take some pictures for me and wish it wasn't so far. I'm going to Plymouth, MN for the 20th Muscle Car Classic which is only 5 hours and not 12. Big difference when momma sitting at home ready to pop.
Have a great weekend and throw something at the DICK.

[Carl S]

Just a thought, but since the SD registry seems to be dormant, is anyone recording VIN's and options of the SD cars coming through ebay these days? Seems like many of them are absent from the registry.

Carl

[superdutybob]

Brew:

What's the status of this request to have an SD Forum? You know, something that keeps those 'Y' and 'T' code guys at bay.

We could call it the 73-74 Snob Forum!

[Brewster]

Nothing, No emails, No calls, No flowers. You'd think someone would at least give us an answer or even reply. But nothing has been received as of yet.

Whats with that question BOB? Looks like your trying to stir something up here on this nice family forum? HMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..........................

[johnta1]

455 SD Registry

[Carl S]

Have I missed something on the site, or can I not view all the VIN/option/color data etc like on the old SD registry page?

Carl

[johnta1]

On the site I posted, you can click on the submit button with no other inputs and it'll list all the cars in sets of 25.

[Carl S]

Thank you.

Carl