[1960 shark]

I'd like a little input on a choice for a donor engine.
Ive owned my 1960 ventura with a 389 for 4 years now,and the one major discovery is that aftermarket parts and performance parts are almost non existent and if they are they are quite expensive.
Recently my engine went Kaboom, (rod bearings/ crank)and I started doing research on a rebuild. Well the replacement parts and rebuild kit are running well past the $2,000 mark,and thats not counting the machine work and assembly fees.So im guesstimating im gonna spend about $4,000 or more.

Being the only guy with an old pontiac my resources for advice are limited.All my buddies say to drop a chevy 350 motor/trans, its the cheapest way and parts are readily available. But, its a Pontiac so,,,,
My lone Pontiac clubmember says I should install a donor engine from a "newer" pontiac. Ive found a few pontiacs with 400, 455 engines in them for a few hundred bucks , so my question is, what engine is more preferable as a donor .I dont plan on racing, but I do want a reliable engine that has get up and go and that i can get parts for .

so far ive found a 1972 catatlina with a 400/400 , and another pontiac with a 455/ 400 for around $300-$500

any suggestions?

[scott cedergren]

In the bigger cars I like the 455. If it is a 71 or newer 455 I would just drop it in, if it is a good runner, with a cam change. Most of the newer 455s have a very puny cam in them. I would use the 068 cam. The 455 makes so much torque that with tall gears and a big car it will still be fun to drive.

[Stuart]

Is your transmission in good condition? If so you probably don't need to worry about replacing it, and it will save you on cost and fabrication time (a TH400 transmission won't be a bolt in affair, you'll have to modify the shift linkage, driveshaft and rear trans mount.)

For general street use, later model 389s, 400s or 455s will all work well and for the most part you should be able to bolt them in without modifications, so it comes down to getting one in the best condition possible for the price. Just make sure whatever engine you get has the proper engine mount bolt holes on the sides of the block (some later engines, particularly in Firebirds, don't have the right bolt pattern.) The later engines will most likely be set up for use with an alternator instead of a generator, so either you need to modify your electrical system for an alternator or modify the mounting brackets from your old engine to maintain the generator.

[Bill Hanlon]

If you keep the original transmission remember that the later (65 and up?) blocks mounted the starter to the block not the bellhousing. I know it is always a bummer to mount an early block to a late bellhousing because there is nowhere to bolt the starter down. I don't know what would happen in your situation where there would be starter mountings on both the block and the bellhousing.

[1960 shark]

Since im going to swap the engine, I figured I would go ahead and mount a 400 trans . I already have a tranny to go with the engine and Im planing on reworking the drive shaft to fit the new length.So the started isnt gonna be a issue, I hope.
I was wondering if the frame X design made it mandatory to install the original 2 piece drive shaft.

Stupid question I guess, but is that the reason the drive shaft is a 2 piece as opposed to a one piece shaft is because of the frame design..

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Bill Hanlon

If you keep the original transmission remember that the later (65 and up?) blocks mounted the starter to the block not the bellhousing. I know it is always a bummer to mount an early block to a late bellhousing because there is nowhere to bolt the starter down. I don't know what would happen in your situation where there would be starter mountings on both the block and the bellhousing.

When putting a newer engine in front of an early transmission you just use the bellhousing mounted starter. There's no interference with the mounting pad on the block.

[gomickeygo]

hey i read that u know about some donor engines, i also have the same problem was wondering if u can help me out since u are in la

[1960 shark]

Call this charty auction house , 310-326-3604.

item number is 99143.

they have a 1972 pontiac catalina for auction with a 400/400, current bid is $200.The guy at the auction told me its a complete car. but that the auction ends this afternoon around 3-4pm.so you gotta be quick.

[poison heart]

Don't put a 350 in it! I only paid $2500 for my rebuild and it's not even stock. That included machine work and assembly/labor. I would keep looking. I bet you could do a stock rebuild for around 2K.

And buying a used running motor does not garantee that it will last you until next week, let a lone a long time. So comparing a 500$ used running motor to a 2K rebuilt motor is not a good comparison.

It all depends on what you want, and what you want to spend. I'd stick with a Pontiac motor. A chevy motor is cheaper and that is all. Not better, not more powerful, not more reliable, not more efficient, not easier to install, not easier to work on and it's definitely not as cool.




Here's mine. I have about $4200 into everything you see in the pic plus headers all msd ignition. A stock rebuild should not cost you anywhere near that much especially since you already have an intake, exhaust, carb and all that stuff.

[60man]

Originally Posted by 1960 shark

Since im going to swap the engine, I figured I would go ahead and mount a 400 trans . I already have a tranny to go with the engine and Im planing on reworking the drive shaft to fit the new length.So the started isnt gonna be a issue, I hope.
I was wondering if the frame X design made it mandatory to install the original 2 piece drive shaft.

Stupid question I guess, but is that the reason the drive shaft is a 2 piece as opposed to a one piece shaft is because of the frame design..

Stupid questions are easier to anwser than making a dumb mistake !!
Yes,two piece drive shaft product of X-frame design. I wouldn't worry about converting to a one piece shaft in a street car for sure. You would have to cut out a lot of materiel from rear lower portion of X-frame !! For clearance. I have been racing my car for 7 years now with a shortened two piece drive shaft. My present IAII combo makes 650+HP and I run slicks. I have only killed one U-joint (jump joint) and one center mount. Not a bad rate of falure IMO. The stock 1330 u-joints aren't that weak! I have replaced all my joints with the solid non-greasable type joints. The only joint failure was a "jump joint" at trans yoke. I don't advise using a jump joint. I use the proper trans yoke for 1330 joints. I had Steel Rubber Products re-do my center support bearing mount and got bearing from NAPA. Now stick that 455 in there and blow your Cheby buddies away !!
FWIW: Check your rear ratio. Some cars used ratios in the 2.92-2.53 with old 4 speed hydros...I would use at least a 3.08 gear...or stiffer. TH400 does not like that tall a gear = slow but great mileage.
Be sure to maintain proper drive shaft alignment per shop manual.!I made spacers for rear trans mount out of a alternator spacer..
Hope this helps some...

[buds56]

I would get the 455 and the 400 turbo and install as a unit,fab up a trans crossmember shorten the front driveshaft,some shift linkage mods and your done for less than a grand.Use the pulleys that come with the engine and your 389 exhaust manifolds.You will have an alternator and if you need parts you can get them easily.JMO Your 60 trans won't bolt up to the newer engine without some adapters. Hope this helps

[Steve Barcak]

Jeeez, you have so many attractive options here and there is no right answer.

You did allude that you wanted to use a 400thm so, use the later model engine and you can use your original ( or replacement if they are bad ) motor mounts. the exhaust is n the same place and you can use your '60 manifolds and head pipes if you wish too.
A nice option if you choose to build the 4oothm trans is a 2.75 low planetary gear set. this works very well with a heavy street car and 2 series gears. It gives you the benefit of better acceleration and still retain the nice 2 series rear gear for mileage and higher speed cruising. I have used low gear sets for several hundred thousands of miles in the last 25 years on many of my Pontiacs. Though I like this choice, a 700r4 trans would be better yet with an even lower first gear and an overdrive. By not owning and driving a late model vehicle and exclusively driving Pontiac power cars since 1975 has given me unequalled time, probably well over 500,000 miles on Pontiac engines that has given me much knowledge on reliability and interchageability too on good combinations. My current street motor I built in 200 has over 165,000 miles and still runs strong and does not leak.
Again, so many good options. I would use at least a 389 engine in size.

Anther option is to use your existing trans and engine block. The '60 389 block is among the strongest Pontiac blocks ever made ( I use one in my 200mph dragster). There are reasonably prices stroker cranks available, in both forged and cast. With them, you can easily increase your engine to over 470 inches. I am building a 389 that is bored and stroked to 577"! of course, going that big with a 389 is much more involved but, just showing you just how flexible the Pontiac V-8 really is.
as for heads and intakes- any Pontiac head will fit on any Pontiac block. Yes, the sky is the limit for whatever you build as there is tremendous interchangebility. As for intakes, if you swap to later heads, you also will use the later, and more readily available, later intakes.
The Pontiac engine offers more interchagebility than any other American auto engine, yes, even more than a chev.

Lots of options from the bare bones $200 parts car you mentioned to whatever you wish to spend.
If you do use a later block, do not discard your 60 block as it has some value to those 'in the know' for a strong engine build.
If you want to do something 'on the cheap' the best option is to find an inexpensive complete car ( as you have ) and swap in the entire motor/trans. that way you do not have to mess with pullies and brackets. Again, your '59 motor mounts and exhaust will fit the later engine. You will need to build a trans x member, mod the driveshaft and trans linkage. Make sure you radiator is in good shape and a shroud and high quality thermo clutch fan is always a good idea.

Good luck to you!

[1960 shark]

I wanna thank everyone for their input. I had an Idea of what I was gonna do , but after reading all this good info,I came up with a pretty solid plan.

Install the 455 , Im gonna dissamble the engine enough to inspect it without actually doing a rebuild.It sounded good when it came out.
Install the 400 ,its already been rebuilt.
Modify all the linkadge and tranny mounts to fit.
Modify the original driveshaft to fit the new length.
Install a new aluminum radiator, which I already have.
And once I get that all in im going to drive the hell outta it.

I think that in the long run, This would be my best option as far as getting aftermarket performance parts and availabilty of replacement parts at the local Napa at a reasonable price.And bumping up the displacement wont hurt either.

as far as the original 389, The only damage was to the crank and rods.Like I stated earlier, the rebuild kits i found were well over $1300, not counting the crank, rods, machining.I could rebuild the engine myself , and save some dough.
I did find a complete rebuild kit on ebay for $600, but Im kindda leary of it because of the low price.
The engine ran like a champ, and never let me down, but I think my hammering on it all the time finally did her in.So I think I might rebuild it when I get some "extra" money.

Thanks to everyone,always good to hear the voice of experience.

[1960 shark]

Engine update, picked up a 1967 400cu. from a GTO. So im forgoing the 455.

But I wanted some input. Ive seen rebuild kits selling for over $1300.00 for my 389 motor, and I found this on Ebay going for under $700.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ponti...6349QQtcZphoto


wondered what some of you guys thought as far as the quality..

[60man]

Originally Posted by 1960 shark

Engine update, picked up a 1967 400cu. from a GTO. So im forgoing the 455.

But I wanted some input. Ive seen rebuild kits selling for over $1300.00 for my 389 motor, and I found this on Ebay going for under $700.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ponti...6349QQtcZphoto


wondered what some of you guys thought as far as the quality..

FWIW: You bore your 389 .060 over = a 400+ a little..
It's all in what your pocket book tells you to do at the time though..
Good luck..I trust 67 is ready to go ?

[421mike]

For what it's worth, check out Pacific Performance in San Pedro. Ken builds pretty much nothing but Pontiacs. Get a price on a performance rebuild from him for your 60 block.X Sylmar -ite

[badlefthand]

Not many are saving 59-60 389's ,parts are there,just have to look harder.Can't blame you tho as it is a hassle.I have a 59-60 and 61 389,few want them as later engines are much easier to obtain and accept better heads,trans etc.My 60 is .055 over ,camed ,roller tips,screw in rocker posts, tripower with a m20 muncie,going into a 46 ford 5 window cpe. Been building for 2 years .should be ok and smoke a bit.Good luck with what ever you decide.

[poison heart]

badlefthand, sounds like we have pretty much the same set up. I'm going to be running dual quads though and it's goin in a 59 pontiac.

[badlefthand]

Originally Posted by poison heart

badlefthand, sounds like we have pretty much the same set up. I'm going to be running dual quads though and it's goin in a 59 pontiac.

Good to know. Save them if you can.Duel quads was first choice but tri power intake popped up first,Parts-some where I read about them being hard to find.