[TransaxleTempest62]

Why having a Pontiac engine is important in a vintage Pontiac car?

Because no engine sounds better than a Pontiac V8! Don't believe me, stand near the burnout box at the Tri Power Nationals in Norwalk!

The sound of an LS doesn't do anything for me. I get why some people put them in their Pontiacs and It's their car.

I still have my original Trophy 4 in my 62 Lemans. That 4 cylinder gets a lot of attention at all the shows we take it too.

[Sirrotica]

Speaking of unique engine sounds of the Stratostreak V8, when I raced my 67 GTO on dirt, one of my competitors told me, "I always knew when you were coming up from behind me, because that Pontiac sounded different than any of the other cars". He said, "First I heard you, and then you went past me". He did say he tried to duck in behind me so he could at least get second, but he just couldn't keep up with me.........

The Pontiac Stratostreak does definitely have a much different exhaust note than other V8s. Throaty growl, kinda like a Tiger does.......

[Elarson]

The Boss Bird Ram Air V on nitro was louder than any of the hemis that we raced. I loved that!

Eric

[59safaricat]

I'm not into performance, racing, doing burnouts ect, my main enjoyment is leisurely cruising down empty country roads. The 389 in my '59 runs and idles so incredibly smooth all the way down to 480 RPM's. The hot air choke design is phenomenal, I can instantly fire it up in single digit temps, kick down the fast idle 20 seconds later, and experience seamless fuel injection type warmups. Gobs of low end torque at very low RPM's which is exactly where my driving experience resides. Why change perfection? Yeah, the engines are more expensive to rebuild. Yes, parts are a little harder to find. Yes, things are not quite as "bolt on" as a Chevy. Yes, the con rods should be upgraded to a good forged design. Yes, the heads need to be reworked and the block zero decked for pump gas. Yes, the timing gears should be upgraded to metal. So what?

[JSchmitz]

Originally Posted by John Milner

Here is a picture of a Studebaker with a 389 tripower. It was owned by Bill Morgan, who used to post here quite a bit.

Here is a link to Bill’s write up about the car. Always enjoyed reading Bill’s posts.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...ibaker.191972/

VERY Cool! Anyone that hates on that car should be slapped! LOL!

I remember my dad talking about a doctor in his small town. He had a 60's corvette. He had the SBC removed and a built 389 installed. Said it was one of the fastest cars in town. This was "back in the day".

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by kingbuzzo

I feel the same way - It's just not the same....

Hopefully I'll be dead by the time folks shart doing electric swaps...lol

I liked that Jag XKE converted to electric that Prince Harry used on his honeymoon.

I'd rock that.

K

[Mr Anonymous]

Here's the car. And I will put a flathead Ford in the damn thing before it would ever get an LS, just for the record.

First engine, 455 Pontiac, 6x heads. Went 1500 miles before I pulled it due to main bearing issues. Total POS. I was in a hurry, didn't double check the work from the machine shop I used for 20 years. Screwed. Got a cheap 400, threw it in one weekend about two years later. That's my niece Shelby who not only loves cars with no PS and no PB, but true Pontiac power. The 400 runs well enough that I havent even pulled the 455 apart to see what's wrong. I like my engines and engine compartments painted black. Not only hides leaks, it matches my dark and angry soul.

There are folks that think the 53 body isn't the sexiest car ever made, and those folks sadly are wrong. That roofline had to have been copied for the F-body years later.

Next engine? Another 455 with 66 tri-power. Got an extra hood to cut a hole in so that those three cute little air cleaners poke thru.

[Sirrotica]

That roofline had to have been copied for the F-body years later.

Dave, I cut up a rusty 76 T/A that had aftermarket T Tops put in it years ago, and saved the roof assembly. One year I took it to the T/A Nationals to see if anyone may have needed the parts. I ran into a guy that wanted to transplant the T/A roof onto his Studebaker along with the T Tops that lived in Vandalia. I delivered the whole roof assembly to his house. No idea if he ever swapped roofs, or not. .....

He wasn't very mechanically inclined, so if he ever did do the swap, it would have had to have been farmed out. Keep an eye out for that car with a Pontiac roof, with T Tops.........

It would probably been easier to put the T Tops into the Studebaker roof than to cut the whole roof off, but who knows if he ever got beyond talking about doing it? I saw the car in the garage, but it's been so long since that event I don't even recall what color it was. But yes, the 2 cars had very similar rooflines.

[RocktimusPryme]

I think my biggest disagreement is that swapping out a Pontiac would be "throwing an old engine in the garbage". Almost invariably those engines are sold to other enthusiasts and repurposed.

For myself, because this is close to me at the moment, Im about to buy a 1962 Catalina Safari. Someone at some point welded in mounts for a 455 olds that it has in it now. Which I tend to have a distaste for Olds motors, easily the worst of the BOP 455s. Im sure others would disagree and that is fine. I would like to go back to a Pontiac, but I don't have a good grip on what was torched out as far as engine and transmission mounts. If all the original stuff was cut out of it and I have to get my welder out just to go back to the stock engine, I would very much consider a 6.0 and 4l80E.

I agree that those swaps are generally as easy as they are made out to be, but as a said if I have to get out the welder anyway.....it starts to make more sense.

I also think a big draw is that you can just fire another bullet at it once you have one in there. Blow up your 5.3. Go find another one. Blow up your 428......good luck.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

I think my biggest disagreement is that swapping out a Pontiac would be "throwing an old engine in the garbage". Almost invariably those engines are sold to other enthusiasts and repurposed.

For myself, because this is close to me at the moment, Im about to buy a 1962 Catalina Safari. Someone at some point welded in mounts for a 455 olds that it has in it now. Which I tend to have a distaste for Olds motors, easily the worst of the BOP 455s. Im sure others would disagree and that is fine. I would like to go back to a Pontiac, but I don't have a good grip on what was torched out as far as engine and transmission mounts. If all the original stuff was cut out of it and I have to get my welder out just to go back to the stock engine, I would very much consider a 6.0 and 4l80E.

I agree that those swaps are generally as easy as they are made out to be, but as a said if I have to get out the welder anyway.....it starts to make more sense.

I also think a big draw is that you can just fire another bullet at it once you have one in there. Blow up your 5.3. Go find another one. Blow up your 428......good luck.

1962 Safari: What a cool car! Soft spot for wagons. Now for your situation. Your car, your decision. But if I owned it, changing it over from Olds power back to Pontiac power would be easier than going to an LS no matter how much in love with those engines many people are. All the necessary wiring alone would take more time to install than putting a Pontiac engine back in with the 5 wires it would need to run. The engine mount system on a 62 frame is really simple. Just a little triangle piece with a flat pad and a hole. You could make these pieces yourself and you have a welder. Personally, I don't really have a problem with the Oldsmobile V8 other than it doesn't belong in there IMO. For the record, I think the Buick V-8 family is my least favorite of the various GM divisional engines. I know many would have thought Chevy would be my most hated engine. But like most "engine guys", each engine family has it's strong and weak points. Small Block Chevy engines have some excellent design features like the 17 head bolt layout and the very stout lifter valley. As far as the "Plug and Play" attraction of the LS engines, I can't argue with you. Much like the 1st gen SBC's, they are a dime a dozen. Our LKQ Pick a Part junk yard has a 40% off sale every holiday. They have food trucks in the parking lot and even had a live band one 4th of July. I was out there one holiday and you have never seen so many LS truck engines pulled out with hammers, pry bars and adjustable wrenches! It was an incredible site to watch. $200.00 a pop. I bet 20-30 of those engines left that day.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Mr Anonymous

Here's the car. And I will put a flathead Ford in the damn thing before it would ever get an LS, just for the record.

First engine, 455 Pontiac, 6x heads. Went 1500 miles before I pulled it due to main bearing issues. Total POS. I was in a hurry, didn't double check the work from the machine shop I used for 20 years. Screwed. Got a cheap 400, threw it in one weekend about two years later. That's my niece Shelby who not only loves cars with no PS and no PB, but true Pontiac power. The 400 runs well enough that I havent even pulled the 455 apart to see what's wrong. I like my engines and engine compartments painted black. Not only hides leaks, it matches my dark and angry soul.

There are folks that think the 53 body isn't the sexiest car ever made, and those folks sadly are wrong. That roofline had to have been copied for the F-body years later.

Next engine? Another 455 with 66 tri-power. Got an extra hood to cut a hole in so that those three cute little air cleaners poke thru.

Terribly conflicted on this one! The Studebaker 289 was a GREAT engine. We recently made over 500 HP. with one on the dyno highlighted in another thread. Made 300 NA. Studebaker with Pontiac power done many decades ago by your father. Owned by a guy who is an Oldsmobile expert and as crazy about those orphan engines as I am about my Pontiacs! I think my head is going to explode.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

1962 Safari: What a cool car! Soft spot for wagons. Now for your situation. Your car, your decision. But if I owned it, changing it over from Olds power back to Pontiac power would be easier than going to an LS no matter how much in love with those engines many people are. All the necessary wiring alone would take more time to install than putting a Pontiac engine back in with the 5 wires it would need to run. The engine mount system on a 62 frame is really simple. Just a little triangle piece with a flat pad and a hole. You could make these pieces yourself and you have a welder. Personally, I don't really have a problem with the Oldsmobile V8 other than it doesn't belong in there IMO. For the record, I think the Buick V-8 family is my least favorite of the various GM divisional engines. I know many would have thought Chevy would be my most hated engine. But like most "engine guys", each engine family has it's strong and weak points. Small Block Chevy engines have some excellent design features like the 17 head bolt layout and the very stout lifter valley. As far as the "Plug and Play" attraction of the LS engines, I can't argue with you. Much like the 1st gen SBC's, they are a dime a dozen. Our LKQ Pick a Part junk yard has a 40% off sale every holiday. They have food trucks in the parking lot and even had a live band one 4th of July. I was out there one holiday and you have never seen so many LS truck engines pulled out with hammers, pry bars and adjustable wrenches! It was an incredible site to watch. $200.00 a pop. I bet 20-30 of those engines left that day.

I actually go see the cars tomorrow. (Im trading my 52 210 Gasser for two 62 Safaris). One is being sold as a parts car but both have clean titles. So I'm going to try to rob as little as possible from the 2nd car so it can still be sold as a nice starter project to someone else. If all goes well tomorrow we are going to trade titles to seal the deal until the cars can be moved. I think Im going to try and Vice Grip Garage style road trip the better car with the Olds motor the 80 miles or so home.

So I do have the parts car to cut off the mounts if I wanted. Like I said though, Im really hoping that the olds mounts are just welded on top of the frame and the Pontiac mounts are actually still in place. Hard to tell from the pictures. I also don't know if there is a trans mount hacked in or if that is in the factory position. Im told its a TH375.

The big draw to a 5.3 or 6.0 would IF I had to start welding anyway, would be the easy adaption of an overdrive trans. If I have to get out the welder anyway, there might be some sense to buying a complete Silverado drivetrain and just slapping it in with a single controller.

[Murf]

IDK guys, but when I watch any of the the Motortend Network shows. I think of the Frank’s Hot Sauce commercials.

LS, We put that sh•t in everything!

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

...All the necessary wiring alone would take more time to install than putting a Pontiac engine back in with the 5 wires it would need to run...

Not as difficult as you make it sound. This is the GMPP kit, comes with a harness and was pretty easy to install - GM harness was indeed plug-n-play. Hardest thing was redoing the cat pipes to fit - the regular non-emissions motor is far easier.



Given this wagon has a severely modded engine/trans mounting it would not be that difficult to start from scratch. Now if you are running the newer LT architechture...

[Stan65]

If you are running the new LT architecture….

No real big difference. The feed fuel system is basically the same as the LS. You feed the fuel rail somewhere around 60psi (don’t remember exactly). The High Pressure Fuel Pump is located under the intake and is cam driven so you don’t have to mess with it. The VCM is larger so mounting locations are fewer. The motor mount bolt pattern is just a little different, but the basic location is the same. So if a LS fits a LT will fit. The front drive and headers are more expensive, but available in the aftermarket.

By the way, I find it amusing that we can’t swap out a Pontiac, but the Stude is ok? Guess my mainstream engine isn’t obscure enough to be cool.

Stan

[Scarebird]

Stan: my point concerning the LT was the support they get is maybe 5% of the level of the LS. I was surprised when doing my 71 LT conversion how little there was.

[geeteeohguy]

When I restored my 1915 Ford, I opted to keep the original 20HP engine and enjoy the Model T experience. The car was actually rock-reliable, comfortable, and a viable commuter getting over 25 mpg in town.

Of course, installing a Pinto engine would have been an 'upgrade'. But, like an LS in a classic GTO or a KZ1200 engine in a Harley, not appealing to those of us who want to experience the vehicle as built and operated as in it own era.

[Stan65]

Scarebird,

Definitely agree the support is not anywhere near what the LS’s have.

I started building my car in 2017. There was even less support then.

I used Detroit Speed motor mounts for the LS and made new engine side plates for the LT to mount to the early Chevy mounts to the Detroit Speed frame stands.

I worked with Jim from ultimate headers to make the first set of F Body LT headers. Those headers went fro Illinois to Ohio and back about 5 times.

I used a Drive Junky accessory drive as at the time it was all there was that drove the accessory’s on a separate belt than the supercharger. Everyone else was using 1 belt which would slip on the supercharger and have too much tension on the power steering pump shaft wiping the pump out

Nothing was cheap, but I wanted to build one of the first LT4’s. I started before everyone else, just didn’t finish first first as I’m a one man band, and I do all the work myself.

I did use your LS pedal adapter though!

I had a TKO 600 and didn’t like the shifts above 5K. I even installed the shift finger update, shift fork pads, and carbon synchro’s. I finally swapped to a TKX and never looked back.

I’m also pretty sure I sold you the tail panel on your LS3 bird several years ago. It was blue.

Stan

[Scarebird]

I believe you did - it really makes the rear look correct:

[mgarblik]

I think whether you install a Pontiac engine, LS engine or LT series engine, your biggest obstacle will be the 4l80E overdrive trans it sounds like you want with it. The 61-64 Catalina body structure has a pretty narrow transmission tunnel. This fit that awful Slim Jim transmission fine but will require modification for the wider 4L80E. I am pretty sure the Station Wagon shares that narrow tunnel. The Bonneville was wider because it had the SuperHydro trans, not the Slim Jim. I am sure it can be done. Get the SawsAll out or a little plasma cutter and go to town.