[64speed]

This is a topic that is always in the back of my mind but is never discussed. I have built several SBC before but have never went wild with one. This 467 I have here has had about ten grand spent on it. Everything is forged and studded and while I don’t have the cam card in front of me my machinist said he would expect 575 or so HP with my Edelbrock round port heads and roller cam and rockers. This is going into a car that will see action at least four days a week 52 weeks a year. There is never really a no driving season. I plan to run errands in this car. Take trips in it and everything you would expect out of a new car. My question is this. It will be driven aggressively occasionally but never abused, will have a rev limiter set well below the engines redline and will never see the track. Religious maintenance with premium quality oil and filter and just all around good care. How long will an engine like this stay in service. Like I said everything is forged studded and roller. Can I get 100000 miles out of it. I know you can’t predict parts failure or this like that but barring a tragedy how long should this engine give service?

[Half-Inch Stud]

Far as i care;

Bottom-End will last very long, provided you monitor oil starvations around off-ramps and un-banked right turns. Bright Oil starve light is my next mini-project.

Top-end will be the canary with the Roller Lifters so i would get used to popping valve covers and at least doing the rocker jiggle, inspecting oil filters seasonally.
Id also figure on 1.5:1 Exhaust Rockers.
Also inspect Valve springs for getting oil soaked for cooling.

Vacuum gauge is your friend, so get to know what normal-cold looks like, and normal-hot.
Noises too.

Suppose an easy Intake & Valley removal for Lifter inspection is the best preventative.

[Formulajones]

A lot of that is going to depend on how good your machinist is.

A lot is going to depend on the parts and pieces used in the build.

Valve train longevity will have a lot to do with spring pressures used and geometry.

Given any unusual parts failure, and everything done properly, no reason it can't be dependable.

No dyno session??

[455rebel]

Valve springs won't make it, but all else should with good oil, and changed regularly.

[Sirrotica]

If you put the by pass oil filter on it that we had previously talked about, the oil and mechanical life will be easily extended 2-3 times over the OEM stuff. I would say 100,000 would be easily attainable.

If memory serves your LS engine has nearly 350,000 on it and has roller lifters as well as roller trunnion rockers minus the roller on the tip of the rocker arm. This demonstrates that the roller portions of an engine aren't necessarily a weak point, given the components are kept within their design parameters.

Over the years I have seen many flat tappet Pontiacs roll past 100,000 miles with no engine problems, the key is clean oil. I have a 72 455 that is running with ported heads, flat tappet performance camshaft, and stock cast pistons that I freshened for a friend back around 1988 that has run 20,000 miles since then with zero mechanical problems, runs fantastic with no oil usage at all. It has seen spirited driving ever since I assembled it back in 1988. Now it's not over 500 HP, but it also has no roller rockers or cam, just a well thought out budget performance build with mostly stock OEM components.

As Mark mentioned oil starvation in stock or modified Pontiac V8s is sort of an Achilles heel and has and will continue to be a problem when the cars the engines are in are cornered hard in spirited driving. I think you have the oil control solved with a aftermarket oil pan and pickup, so minimize that OEM wet sump vulnerability. Seeing 100,000 miles shouldn't be a problem if you keep clean oil in it and regular attention to top end pieces, valve adjustment etc.

[64speed]

Thanks guys. Yeah I have a Canton oil pan with trap doors and a deeper reservoir. I always keep a rigorous maintenance regimen. My machinist is excellent and I only used top quality parts from Butler. I used ROSS forged crank and pistons. I just was curious if anyone had actually driven one a lot to see if they had any problems? Why should I be worried about valve spring wear? Butler built my heads. I did not use any edelbrock parts except the actual casting

[Sirrotica]

Higher valve lift, with increased spring pressure over stock components accelerate valve spring fatigue life. Hence where your LS engine has lived 350,000 miles with a stock spec camshaft, you probably won't get that life out of springs operating outside of those parameters. No matter how good the steel quality is, they will fatigue quicker, due to being expected to do more work.

[Formulajones]

I haven't so much as lifted a valve cover on my 454 in probably 15+ years now. 640" roller, AFR heads, and forged goodies in the short block. Little over 600HP. It's 99% street car, even with the 4.10's out back, so it gets worked pretty well, but early on it spent a lot of time at the dragstrip too. Still clicking along just fine.

[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

Far as i care;

Bottom-End will last very long, provided you monitor oil starvations around off-ramps and un-banked right turns. Bright Oil starve light is my next mini-project.

Top-end will be the canary with the Roller Lifters so i would get used to popping valve covers and at least doing the rocker jiggle, inspecting oil filters seasonally.
Id also figure on 1.5:1 Exhaust Rockers.
Also inspect Valve springs for getting oil soaked for cooling.

Vacuum gauge is your friend, so get to know what normal-cold looks like, and normal-hot.
Noises too.

Suppose an easy Intake & Valley removal for Lifter inspection is the best preventative.

I agree with this 100%. The wild card here will be your roller lifters/valve gear. I have about 90,000 miles on the overhaul I did on my '67 400 over 30 years ago when it hit 173,000 miles. It actually only really needed a valve job at that point. My overhaul was stock spec, with a stock 068 cam, though. Still uses no oil and runs strong. Block and cranks and rods have 253,000 miles on them. These engines are very reliable if not too tweaked and are regularly maintained.

[tom s]

As said,the parts with needle bearings are the suspect parts also keep a eye on the dist gear.I just checked the poly gear in one of my engines and I dont remember when I checked it last.I changed it anyway,kept the old one for a spare.The thing in your engine that would bother me is 20-50 oil for everyday driving with a lot of cold starts,just me.I dont even like it for breakin.Tom

[Steve C.]

A repeat comment related to the conversation here....

When I was dealing with Mark at Luhn Performance regarding his oil pumps he told me that he had conversations with both Mahle and Dura-Bond engineers and he mentioned they tend to shy away from 20W-50 oil in street cars. They would prefer 10W30 or 10W40. At the time I did not ask Mark and he did not offer a specific reason why, and I don't remember if it was related to bearing clearances or piston rings, or both. I was going to tear down my engine and replace both bearings and rings and mentioned that to Mark in conversation, thus the specific companies he mentioned. It was just a passing comment when he asked me what weight oil I was using.

For the most part I've always used 10W30 oil.

.

[mgarblik]

From what I was able to find in this thread, you didn't mention what you are using for rocker arms. I would not expect stud mounted rocker arms with aluminum bodies and Chinese needle bearings to last 100K miles. They would be the first part to fatigue fail IMO. Next might be valve springs, but that wouldn't be as dramatic. With shaft mounted or at least steel rocker arms, 100K shouldn't be an issue with the use and maintenance you have described.

[64speed]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

From what I was able to find in this thread, you didn't mention what you are using for rocker arms. I would not expect stud mounted rocker arms with aluminum bodies and Chinese needle bearings to last 100K miles. They would be the first part to fatigue fail IMO. Next might be valve springs, but that wouldn't be as dramatic. With shaft mounted or at least steel rocker arms, 100K shouldn't be an issue with the use and maintenance you have described.

I have Lunati aluminum bodied rollers which my machinist said looked like a real quality piece. They are twice as thick as the Harland sharp and the gold crane ones. Two things I have in all my classic cars is a Stewart Warner motor minder vacuum gauge and a tuned ear for the sound that particular engine make. I also keep the dummy lights hooked up because you can’t realistically look at the gauges non stop. I buy Mooneyes 4 gauge clusters and run oil water and volts in the Stewart Warner green line gauges with a motor minder on the end.

[64speed]

My machinist was the one that recommended running 20w/50 and he’s the man that built it so I will probably run it for 1500 miles or so then switch to a 15/40 as a compromise. What I plan to do is run 6 quarts of oil and a quart of Lucas oil stabilizer as the seventh quart. I have done this for years in all my vehicles and you are right my Yukon is past 368,000 miles now. I finally had to do some maintenance, I put a waterpump on it. Hardest part of that was taking all the plastic **** off to get to it. I replaced the front wheel bearing on the drivers side because I was hearing a whining/grinding sound coming from it and when I got it apart I realized it was my 150000 mile brake pads giving up the ghost but since I already had the bearing I put it on. I keep waiting for the trans to go but I drive like a grandma and it just keeps plugging away. If the Lunati rockers give me trouble I will pony up for the crower stainless steel ones. I hope to not have any trouble out of the lifters because they are Lunati brand but my machinist said they were just reboxed morels. I am really going all out and way over my initial plans for this car. What was supposed to be a 2500 dollar drive it as you build it has turned into a frame off once the hidden body damage was found. I’m chroming everything that was stainless or aluminum cause I want to be able to just wipe it down. I am having the factory radio converted the Bluetooth and doing the little details that I hope will make it more enjoyable for me and will set it apart from the crowd. I’m also running the holley sniper fuel system from tank to actual unit.

[Half-Inch Stud]

on a COLD morning like today, i'd be glad dear old dad instructed me to run thin oil 10-w30 then, 5w-20 now. 5w-30 in summer. maybe 10w-30 in summer.

Its all about the oil pump bypass, gears, shaft friction, dizzy shaft, dizzy gear, Cam gear. Oh and the Mains getting oil under pressure to keep the rods afloat at cold start.

[Steve C.]

Most of the aluminum rocker arms are machined from extruded billet stock, although the Crane Energizer and Comp Cams Hi-Energy parts are die-cast, which reduces their strength in comparison to the extruded parts. Steel-body rockers are stronger than aluminum rockers. In an engine application, aluminum’s lifespan is significantly shorter than steel or stainless steel due to the fact that it fatigues faster during each heating and cooling cycle. Steel’s fatigue limit is approximately half of its tensile strength, while aluminum’s fatigue limit is about 40 percent of its tensile strength. In high-output engines such as those featuring nitrous or forced induction, it’s not uncommon to break aluminum-body exhaust rocker arms due to the stress of opening the valve against the added cylinder pressure during the exhaust stroke. Some racers run an aluminum intake rocker and a steel or stainless exhaust rocker to prevent breakage. Many companies are now building steel-body rockers that are as light as or lighter than their aluminum counterparts. Hot rodders with naturally aspirated engines don’t have to worry about cylinder pressure breaking an aluminum rocker—just don’t screw up your valve-lash spec or allow a broken spring to beat the rocker against the valve. Those things will break it even faster.

Source: https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp...r-arm-comparo/



.

[Formulajones]

Prefer the crowers. 3 engines with those rockers here. My first set I bought more than 25 years ago and they are still working fine.

[389]

With a flat tappet I would of given it 100,000 but not with the retro-roller.. I would of went with a nice Crower solid flat..

That 462 I bought from Cliff is still going with over 100,000 on the clock. No smoke, no noise. It has a Crower 60919 with Johnson hyd lifters from the 70s.. TRW forged pistons, forged rods, 6X8 heads with stainless valves and Crane Gold rockers..

[Steve C.]

Similar situation as Formulajones with Crower rockers. Many years ago I bought Crower stainless steel rocker arms and they were used on two engine combinations before I switched to a shaft mounted rocker system. I passed the Crower rocker arms on to Cliff Ruggles and I presume they still in use on his current engine.


.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

on a COLD morning like today, i'd be glad dear old dad instructed me to run thin oil 10-w30 then, 5w-20 now. 5w-30 in summer. maybe 10w-30 in summer.

Its all about the oil pump bypass, gears, shaft friction, dizzy shaft, dizzy gear, Cam gear. Oh and the Mains getting oil under pressure to keep the rods afloat at cold start.

Your dad was a smart man and taught you well. Heavy weight oil can't do all the wonderful things many think it does if it CAN'T get to the parts due to lack of flow.