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Old 09-18-2020, 10:11 PM
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Andretti Andretti is offline
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Default CoyBilt 1968 GTO

Posted at Carbuff Network. Extensive rebuild with some excellent photography.

https://www.carbuffnetwork.com/proje...iac-gto/#47709

  #2  
Old 09-19-2020, 12:31 AM
PurelyGTO68 PurelyGTO68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andretti View Post
Posted at Carbuff Network. Extensive rebuild with some excellent photography.

https://www.carbuffnetwork.com/proje...iac-gto/#47709
Looks Gorgeous! Also looks familiar. For a second there I thought it was a real deuce but the description says it is a recreation. Should have a 4 blade fan but can understand why they didnt feel comfortable with it and went with the 5 blade flex instead. Curious decision to ditch the 4.33 gears for 3.90. The 4.33s are a hoot!

I wonder if that carb is the real deal? No vacuum fitting on the RH side of the baseplate.....has me wondering about that a little bit. However, I dont know if that is correct or not because I dont have a 7028273 carb on my car. Someday maybe....

Very nice looking car! Thanks for sharing.

  #3  
Old 09-19-2020, 04:11 PM
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Verdoro 68 Verdoro 68 is offline
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Saw this car at a couple local shows last summer. It’s nice! There are a few nit picks - repro steering wheel, wrong faces on the gauges, but it shows really well.

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Old 09-19-2020, 05:51 PM
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Beautiful car!

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69 GTO Liberty Blue/dark blue 467, 850 Holley, T2, Edelbrock Dport 310cfm w Ram Air manifolds, HFT 245/251D .561/.594L, T400, 9" w 3.50s 3905lbs 11.59@ 114, 1.57/ 60'
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Old 09-19-2020, 07:21 PM
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Nice looking car. Hope mine finishes as well.
Some items I could pick on, and the carb.

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Old 09-19-2020, 08:47 PM
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You know you've become pretty anal when you find yourself constantly noticing anything and everything that's not "quite right". I've tried sharing these discoveries with my wife but she just doesn't get it! Haha

What's incorrect with the gauge cluster? Seems to look correct. Here's another '68 for comparison...
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  #7  
Old 09-19-2020, 09:36 PM
PurelyGTO68 PurelyGTO68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andretti View Post
You know you've become pretty anal when you find yourself constantly noticing anything and everything that's not "quite right". I've tried sharing these discoveries with my wife but she just doesn't get it! Haha

What's incorrect with the gauge cluster? Seems to look correct. Here's another '68 for comparison...
Really hard for me to tell but those look like 69 faces. The dark centers for the pointers are usually found on the black face gauges I think. The 68 gauges have a blueish tint with chrome centers on the pointers. The rally clock for 68 doesnt have the number 6 and it also has some other numbers on the inner spot to work with the second hand as a stop watch. Here is a photo from my 68 convertible deuce.

I have a spare set of rally gauges with clock but they arent nice enough for that car. They are driver quality at best.. I can send them your way if you like. Send me a PM if interested. Just cover shipping. I dont need anything for the gauges.
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  #8  
Old 09-19-2020, 09:53 PM
PurelyGTO68 PurelyGTO68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andretti View Post
You know you've become pretty anal when you find yourself constantly noticing anything and everything that's not "quite right". I've tried sharing these discoveries with my wife but she just doesn't get it! Haha

What's incorrect with the gauge cluster? Seems to look correct. Here's another '68 for comparison...
I know what you mean. I bought a set of new headlight rings from Ames but ended hunting down an OE set and I spent a few hours polishing them up. Why? Because the originals have a squarish profile where the reproductions are rounded. Can anyone tell? I showed both to my wife and she just shook her head and said I was crazy.
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  #9  
Old 09-19-2020, 10:55 PM
Mcronk Mcronk is offline
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Those are reproduction exhaust manifolds. Here is a couple of pics of correct RA II exhaust manifolds. Also don't see a idle solenoid and I believe master cylinder is supposed to be black.
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Last edited by Mcronk; 09-19-2020 at 11:04 PM.
  #10  
Old 09-20-2020, 12:10 AM
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Beautiful car! Wow. :-o

For correctness, there are some "errors" that I notice (nit picking, I know), including:
  • Breather tube should be black
  • Hood hinges should be black phosphate, not gloss
  • Windshield washer hoses do NOT go through those little holes, as many times as people attempt to say they do
  • WIndow crank handles should be color-coded to interior color, not black
  • Paint in door jams a bit too nice
  • Throttle return spring color appears a bit too baby blue in picture, was darker I believe
  • Mounting plate for wiper motor was black (not bright), thought (could be wrong on that)
  • Hood pop-up spring and hood latch look wrong. Spring should not be bright, but black (I believe).

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  #11  
Old 09-20-2020, 03:34 AM
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Wish they showed the trim plate to show what plant it came from. Wonder if it's a Fremont car?

The biggest item that popped out at me was that the lower rear quarter moldings are missing. May be a personal preference though.
With the exception of the Repo clock I think the gauge faces look fine
Not sure about the vacuum advance hoses. They appear to be for a 69 but since this a RA II clone ???
Wrong Oil Pan
There are a few additional little things, in addition to already mentioned, that a GTOAA judge would catch (hopefully).

But still, overall, a beautiful car

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Old 09-20-2020, 05:31 AM
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Very nice.

So would everyone agree that the color is a good representation of Solar Red?

It looks like they had to replace the rear quarters on both sides and made the cut about 1" down. I'm assuming they used the reproduction coupe quarters for the replacement panels.

Wouldn't that mean they lost that subtle profile difference on the rear quarters that the convertibles have over the coupes?


Last edited by bkmont; 09-20-2020 at 06:16 AM.
  #13  
Old 09-20-2020, 10:53 AM
Mcronk Mcronk is offline
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From what i can tell so far about RA II distributor vacuum lines they used 4 ports on the switch similar and possibly like the 69 version. Three lines from the distribution block and one from base of switch. The distributor did not have the dual port vacuum advance like the other 68 distributors. My thinking is these RA II cars were late production and may share similarities to early 69 RA cars. They did use the same carb number for RA II cars and early 69 RA IV cars 7028273. Attached engine shot of Jim Mattisons RA II GTO that sold back in 2016.
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  #14  
Old 09-20-2020, 01:06 PM
PurelyGTO68 PurelyGTO68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68gtoMN View Post
Beautiful car! Wow. :-o

For correctness, there are some "errors" that I notice (nit picking, I know), including:
  • Breather tube should be black
  • Hood hinges should be black phosphate, not gloss
  • Windshield washer hoses do NOT go through those little holes, as many times as people attempt to say they do
  • WIndow crank handles should be color-coded to interior color, not black
  • Paint in door jams a bit too nice
  • Throttle return spring color appears a bit too baby blue in picture, was darker I believe
  • Mounting plate for wiper motor was black (not bright), thought (could be wrong on that)
  • Hood pop-up spring and hood latch look wrong. Spring should not be bright, but black (I believe).
My original wiper motor mounting plate was silver cad plated.....then painted black over the plating. So yes, that should appear black when restored.

The hood pop up spring appears to be natural black like you see for spring metal. There were quite a few in the local salvage yards and they all appeared black.

  #15  
Old 09-20-2020, 01:19 PM
PurelyGTO68 PurelyGTO68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcronk View Post
From what i can tell so far about RA II distributor vacuum lines they used 4 ports on the switch similar and possibly like the 69 version. Three lines from the distribution block and one from base of switch. The distributor did not have the dual port vacuum advance like the other 68 distributors. My thinking is these RA II cars were late production and may share similarities to early 69 RA cars. They did use the same carb number for RA II cars and early 69 RA IV cars 7028273. Attached engine shot of Jim Mattisons RA II GTO that sold back in 2016.
I think you are correct. The MPC illustration only shows the 5 port hose assembly (plus the main lower nose). But the parts catalog shows both a 3 and 5 port version with two different part numbers of course.

Soooooo
The top two hoses are for the throttle plate fitting on the RH (choke) side of the carb and the back side of the vacuum advance can (vac reverse?). Jim Mino told me that all RAII distributors only had the advance fitting and not the second back side fitting found on all other V8 distributors. So of that is the case, then it would likely need the 3 hose assembly and thus the carb base fitting would omitted as well. As already mentioned, the RAII manual carb was shared with 69 so perhaps the base plate fitting was a late model year deletion.

Would be nice if we could close the case there and call it a 3 hose assembly for RA II. But.....there are photos of what appears to be 5 hose assemblies on original RAII engines. So, maybe both styles were used? Stuff like this has happened many times as we all know by now.

???

  #16  
Old 09-20-2020, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurelyGTO68 View Post
Really hard for me to tell but those look like 69 faces. The dark centers for the pointers are usually found on the black face gauges I think. The 68 gauges have a blueish tint with chrome centers on the pointers. The rally clock for 68 doesnt have the number 6 and it also has some other numbers on the inner spot to work with the second hand as a stop watch. Here is a photo from my 68 convertible deuce.

I have a spare set of rally gauges with clock but they arent nice enough for that car. They are driver quality at best.. I can send them your way if you like. Send me a PM if interested. Just cover shipping. I dont need anything for the gauges.
Appreciate the offer for the gauges but I have a '69 convertible. Looking at other pictures I now see what you mean about the blueish tint on the '68 faces. The CoyBilt does looks like the '69 coloring.

By the way, you have one very sharp '68. Beautiful!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkmont View Post
It looks like they had to replace the rear quarters on both sides and made the cut about 1" down. I'm assuming they used the reproduction coupe quarters for the replacement panels.

Wouldn't that mean they lost that subtle profile difference on the rear quarters that the convertibles have over the coupes?
I'd think you're right as the coupe would have somewhat less of a curve at the top of the quarter. Don't know if anyone would notice unless parked beside another of the same. For what's available out there I guess there were no other options for them.

  #17  
Old 09-20-2020, 03:06 PM
Mcronk Mcronk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurelyGTO68 View Post
I think you are correct. The MPC illustration only shows the 5 port hose assembly (plus the main lower nose). But the parts catalog shows both a 3 and 5 port version with two different part numbers of course.

Soooooo
The top two hoses are for the throttle plate fitting on the RH (choke) side of the carb and the back side of the vacuum advance can (vac reverse?). Jim Mino told me that all RAII distributors only had the advance fitting and not the second back side fitting found on all other V8 distributors. So of that is the case, then it would likely need the 3 hose assembly and thus the carb base fitting would omitted as well. As already mentioned, the RAII manual carb was shared with 69 so perhaps the base plate fitting was a late model year deletion.

Would be nice if we could close the case there and call it a 3 hose assembly for RA II. But.....there are photos of what appears to be 5 hose assemblies on original RAII engines. So, maybe both styles were used? Stuff like this has happened many times as we all know by now.

???
I only got my RA II 4 speed GTO early this year. I spoke with Jim about the vacuum lines and distributors as i was looking for parts missing off my car. Very unfortunate that Jim is no longer with us. He had a wealth of knowledge on RA II cars. Attached is a picture of a RA II distributor he restored.
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  #18  
Old 09-20-2020, 03:15 PM
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Verdoro 68 Verdoro 68 is offline
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'69 gauge markings on the rally gauges and clock. The color looks correct, whoever restored them rescreened the wrong face.


Compared to '68:


Missing chrome on the valance, 1/4 panels and an arrowhead on the Endura. Given the attention to detail elsewhere, like OG mentioned, maybe it was a personal preference to leave those things off.

Here's the data plate.
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Old 09-20-2020, 03:34 PM
PurelyGTO68 PurelyGTO68 is offline
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The way they replaced the qtr panel is probably the best method short of using NOS or good donor pieces. The reproduction hardtop qtr panels are very good and will do the job provided you keep the upper section from the original convertible quarters.....which appears they did from the photos they posted of the restoration process.

Many dont realize but the wave exists in hard tops as well as convertibles but they are different amplitudes. If the inner wheel well was good, or replaced with a convertible wheel well then the hardtop quarter panel will deform slightly to conform and match up to the remaining upper portion of the original convertible quarter panel.

That is what I had to do to my car and it worked. I also had the other side to use as a reference and a profile gauge is you friend.

The bigger issue with the hardtop quarters is at the very back corner. The hardtop and convertibles are very different back at that spot so some custom metal fab is required. I ran into that issue myself. Probably why they hung a jacket over that spot in this photo.
Looks great after it was all painted so I would say they did the best job possible. Very nice work IMO...
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  #20  
Old 09-20-2020, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verdoro 68 View Post
'69 gauge markings on the rally gauges and clock. The color looks correct, whoever restored them rescreened the wrong face.


Compared to '68:


Missing chrome on the valance, 1/4 panels and an arrowhead on the Endura. Given the attention to detail elsewhere, like OG mentioned, maybe it was a personal preference to leave those things off.

Here's the data plate.

Oh I see the gauge graphics now. eh, way off.
Thanks for the data plate.

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