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#1
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Muncie Iron 3spd WTB
anyone have an iron Muncie 3spd for sale?
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68 Firebird-- Street/Strip - 400/461 Eagle Forged Bottom End & Ross Flat top pistons. KRE 325 CFM D port, Ultradyne 263/271 @.050, .4267 lift. Crower Solid roller lifters and 1.65 stainless rockers. Quickfuel 1000 on Torker2 intake and 2" open spacer. Hedman 1.75" headers. TH400 w/brake. Ford 9" w/3.80 gears & 28x9 Hoosier pro bracket drag radial. Best ET: 1.35 60ft, 6.29 @ 107.20 mph, 9.99 @132.33 mph. 3,300 race weight |
#2
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#3
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FYI:
The Muncie three speed, which is often confused with a saginaw three speed was Chevrolet only for 1969, then after used by all divisions; it is most often found in trucks from 1969-1975(?) Prior to 1970 the heavy duty three speed used in pretty much every Pontiac application I know if is a Ford sourced "Dearborn" unit. they show up from time to time on ebay, and here's one right now: 1969 Muncie 330 Here is a thread I created to help identify them: Muncie 330 Mc1/M13 I am ever keeping an eye out myself... and have yet to see if a lead i have will pan out (these border closures sure don't help me though).
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1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
#4
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Lee, I have some kind of three speed in my shop. Took it out of the gt37 27 years ago?... Give me a call... Bill
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GT37 3625lbs..Fastest bench seat, column shift, all steel,no power adders car at Norwalk 1.35 w/29.5x10.5x15 6.42 @ 109 10.09 @ 133 |
#5
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Thank you for the information. I as well would get confused between the Iron Muncie 3spd vs the Dearborn unit as far as which Trans was used for the various years.. While I previously had the Muncie 3spd as OEM in my 73GTO, it sounds like the 66 GTO would have had the Dearborn trans?
What is the best way to ID the Dearborn trans vs the Iron Muncie?
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68 Firebird-- Street/Strip - 400/461 Eagle Forged Bottom End & Ross Flat top pistons. KRE 325 CFM D port, Ultradyne 263/271 @.050, .4267 lift. Crower Solid roller lifters and 1.65 stainless rockers. Quickfuel 1000 on Torker2 intake and 2" open spacer. Hedman 1.75" headers. TH400 w/brake. Ford 9" w/3.80 gears & 28x9 Hoosier pro bracket drag radial. Best ET: 1.35 60ft, 6.29 @ 107.20 mph, 9.99 @132.33 mph. 3,300 race weight |
#6
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The GM transmissions have the common symmetrical mounting ears sticking straight out, top and bottom; the Dearborn uses a Ford pattern, which is like a trapezoid, is wider at the bottom.
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#7
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Also, the Dearborn is a top-loader design, with the sheet metal access plate on top. I have two that I pulled from GTOs in the mid-70s.
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#8
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Quote:
Here is a purported 1968 GTO/442 Dearborn unit; You can see that this one doesn't have a typical ford mount. EDIT: the last image is one with the Ford bellhousing mount.
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1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
#9
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The Dearborn is a "top loader" as you can see in the photo. I assume the Muncie 3-speed would have a side opening case like the 4-speed?
The Pontiac bell housing has 2 bolt patterns. One pattern for the Muncie and Saginaw. The other is for the HD Dearborn (Ford) transmission. So this is why you will see the 2-bolt patterns on the bell. I can't speak for the other GM lines that used the trans. The front bearing collar is the same diameter as the Muncie so it would fit the bell and I believe the input shaft is also changed for GM application. That was one of the differences between a Ford use Dearborn and a GM use Dearborn. I believe a couple other changes may have been incorporated for the GM use. It is a very good HD transmission and will take the punishment. The disadvantage is the gear spread in not having the 4-speed. It is great if racing from a stop and rowing through the gears. But if you are traveling for example at 60 MPH, you aren't going to downshift into 2nd and give the would be racer a run for his money. |
#10
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Quote:
Here's a saginaw three speed versus a muncie three speed side cover comparison:
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1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
#11
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Good pics. Have personally never seen a Muncie or a Saginaw 3-speed in my dealings with old cars - just Muncie, Dearborn, and automatics. Thanks.
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#12
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My '68 Cutlass, with 35,000 miles on it, that I purchased from the original owner, had a factory 3-speed floor shift, had the Dearborn trans with the dual bolt pattern on the bellhousing. I believe that the bolt pattern on those trans' was rotated a number of degrees to discourage interchanging with Ford applications.
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