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Brian '74 · 10-03-2002, 05:19 PM

bjfox,
Just wondering if you started this yet? I just asked Stevek what he used and he gave me some info and I would like to try this out instead of welding the quarters in. Give me an email and let me know how it is turning out.

brian@68firebird.net

[This message was edited by 67_428_FBird on October 03, 2002 at 08:31 PM.]

larry davis · 10-03-2002, 06:31 PM

Ok if it's so great, why aren't they using it to glue airframes on 747s? Or why isn't Detroit bonding all the body panels together?
Sounds like a "flash in the pan" to me.

W/ the $ pinch the aviation & automotive industry is in it would make sense to use it as a substitute for high $ welding labor.

I guarantee you I'm not getting on that plane!

SECOND AMENDMENT: AMERICA'S ORIGINAL HOMELAND SECURITY.
I Misus Rash'!

jcruz · 10-03-2002, 07:53 PM

The trick to keeping the seam as "seamless" as possible is to crimp the replacement panel. A pneumatic crimper makes short work of that. On my 1/4 panels, after dry-fitting I then used a Dremel tool to smooth off the original metal to make sure it got perfectly down in the seam. The result is only a small area to fill.

You shouldn't glue anything structural. For example, on 1/4 panels, I wouldn't glue the panel to the bumper plates -- you better weld those.

My applicator cost $45. Money well spent because Duramix (now 3M) seam sealer uses the same applicator. I've used it a lot.

Spedmonkey, I'll send pictures....

John

1969 Firebird resto...doing my part to keep PY profitable....

jcruz · 10-03-2002, 07:55 PM

Spedmonkey,

No e-mail address? Let me know how I can send pictures if you want them....

John

1969 Firebird resto...doing my part to keep PY profitable....

Brian '74 · 10-03-2002, 08:11 PM

John,
Could you email me the pics also? I would appreciate it.
brian@68firebird.net
Thanx,
Brian

Brian '74 · 10-04-2002, 05:35 PM

Thanx for the replies bjfox and JCreuziger. Think I will be looking for a tube of this this weekend!!

http://www.68firebird.net

61-63 · 10-04-2002, 09:27 PM

I have observed the process of using this stuff
at a friend's body shop. He has been in the paint and body business for 40 years. The metal (both surfaces) must be absolutely clean. Then he glops it on and clamps/tapes/screws the surfaces together. Then he grinds the excess off with the same grinder he uses on metal. Then the bondo, primer, bc/cc, etc. He uses FUSOR products. They too have a website. I don't own their stock.

61-63 · 10-04-2002, 09:30 PM

I just noticed an earlier post asking why GM, etc.
don't use these bonding agents instead of welding.
They do and extensively.

spedmonkey · 10-06-2002, 07:23 PM

john my e-mail address is spedmonkey51584@aol.com

if you can send your any pic it will be really helpfulk

thanks
kevin

Marty Phipps · 10-07-2002, 04:59 PM

Talking to one of the shops I go to
Panel bonding is growing to be quite popular.
This particular shop works on a lot of high end cars.
They've developed a really nice way to attach the panels.
They'll apply the panel bond material all the way around.
Then the technician will compression spot weld the flanges.
A bit overkill, but a really strong application.

Brian '74 · 10-21-2002, 06:50 PM

Well, for the last 3 weeks I have been trying to get my parts store to get me a tube of this w/ NO luck. Does anyone know where I can get this? I really wanted to get at least 1 quarter done this weekend. Won't get a chance until after Paul Spott's show at Atco on the 2nd.

http://www.68firebird.net

Marty Phipps · 10-21-2002, 08:58 PM

You'll need to go to a more specialized store then the local parts store.
Ask a local body shop where they get their supplies from.
They should be able to direct you to a local Automotive paint and body supply jobber

Brian '74 · 10-22-2002, 04:54 AM

Marty,
I should have stated it more precise than just a parts store. It does supply the auto body shops w/ materials. They do all the paint mixing/matching also. Really they are an autobody supply but sell auto parts.
I had them order the 3m adhesive 3 times (once a week)and kept saying come back, go back and they said it isn't in. Think it would be easier by mail order.

http://www.68firebird.net

Half-Inch Stud · 10-22-2002, 07:15 AM

Many excellent epoxies avaiable to bond metal.

These epoxies have Adhesive Strengths of 2500 to 5000PSI.

Except in the presence of moisture. Then most all of these eposies see adhesive strengths on the order of 1/10...250 to 500PSI.

The Failure Mode is called De-Lamination. A Failure Mechanism is moisture absorbtion.

I recall a news blur about an Airbus A300 Vertical Tail ripping off...composite approach with epoxy bonding. Still wonder how it failed (Faliure Mode)and why (Failure Mechanism).

Can you all work with that?

H.I. Stud

"11.00/123MPH/1.50 60foot/29.5"/4.10:1/10"/472 #48/Flat HYD/DualQuad/Wenzler/3250Lbs
12.00/112MPH/1.61 60foot/26"/3.31:1/10"/472 #48/FlatHYD/Q-Jet/Torker/3650Lbs"

jcruz · 10-22-2002, 06:12 PM

Brian,

There's a search feature on the 3M site to find vendors in your area. Around the Northern VA area I found several.

If they don't carry the 3M adhesives they'll probably have the Duramix brand (same company these days).

John

1969 Firebird resto...doing my part to keep PY profitable....

steveK · 10-23-2002, 04:46 AM

I used it on the floor pans as well as outer wheel wells without a problem. I used sheet metal screws where I could not clamp it tight then ground them flush after the glue set (approx. 24 hours). The one thing is, you can't make a mistake cause after it is setup, that's that!. I saw Hot Rod TV did a show on it and bonded 2 pieces together and used a frame straigtening machine to try to break it apart. I think they got to 2800lbs then shut it down. Enough was enough as the metal was about to give out not the glue. The only draw back is the applicator gun. Sometimes the place where you buy the 3M adhesive will let you borrow it. Otherwise it is about 180 bucks. I made one from a regular caulk gun, 2 hose clamps and 2 dowel rods. It works quite well!

Brian '74 · 10-23-2002, 05:24 AM

Did a search on 3M's site and found a Sherwin William's Auto finish store in the town I work. Going to check it out at lunch time.

Steve, can you get us a pic of that contraption?

Brian

http://www.68firebird.net

steveK · 10-23-2002, 06:45 AM

I'll try to get a pic of it...now I wonder where I put it.

jcruz · 10-23-2002, 05:43 PM

My applicator gun was $45 and I use it with seam sealer too, so it was a good investment.

$180 seems a little steep....

John

1969 Firebird resto...doing my part to keep PY profitable....

Marty Phipps · 10-23-2002, 06:16 PM

I'd have to agree with John about the $180.00
Make sure though that you use the same type of seamsealer, glue, etc. from the same company.
If memory serves me correctly.
3M, Duramix, Lord Fusor (the only G.M. approved supplier)
all have different application guns for their products.
It's be the pits to have to buy a different gun for each aplication

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