[SlinkyBMX]

Thanks guys again!

I been on my search for the 455. Im not familar with prices tho. I really want a HO but I dont know how much they go for. I just want a pretty stock one long or short, to build off of. Any ideas on the price? Looking for an automatic one. Also what about the price of a regular pontiac 455? Thanks guys!

Lars

[TA454]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BANDITONE:
the owner ot the T/A mentioned how the CHEVELLE would be smoking the tires trying to catch him coming out of the hole. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Common sense would tell you that smoking the tires out of the hole is a sign of overpowering the available traction. Therefore if one vechile WAS overpowering the available traction while the other was not. Must clearly mean that the one not spinning the tires upon launch simply is too underpowered to overpower the available traction.
Hell put John Force's funny car in a STREET RACE against a 12 second car. Chances are the 12 second car will have an easier time finding traction and would actually have a chance at winning. It all comes down to the EFFICIENT use of power.
That is the mustang's success story NOT overpowering the launch.
On the street you can oftentimes do better with less power.

[Banditone]

TA454-your right-traction is the name of the game-you do have one quick T/A-even though I would'nt go the chevy route--smoke some vette's etc. .

[motroman]

Well,...I'm new to this site and I own an unusual TransAm. It's a 71 with an original(bought from a Chevy dealer in 1974, 454 LS6 Chevy big block).

I love the car. I love the engine. I can email you pictures and the original magazine articles that will tell you why the car is the way it is.

It was originally owned by BFG, one of 5, to promote it's then new Radial T/A tires. Tom Senter, a famous engine builder of the 60's and 70's, plus a columnist/writer for Popular HotRodding, Car Life, and other mags bought the car from BFG when it was basically trashed, including the orignal 455 HO. He searched in vain for an SD, but couldn't find it. That's when he put in the LS6. I have his original magazine articles talking about the restoration and the engine switch. The car is basically the same as it when he had it, except it now has a Turbo400 instead of an M22.

I bought the T/A from the fourth owner who purchased the car in the middle 80's and kept it in a barn near Fresno since 1989. He would start it three or four times a year and run it around the farm. It hasn't been registered for the street since 1989.

The T/A has 38k and looks great with the original Minilite wheels. I've had to do a lot of minor repairs;heater core, carb, valve stem seals, shocks, motor mounts, tires, etc.

But it's super fast and super fun. It's my favorite and as you can see by my signature, it has some good competition.

[ujt389]

With that kind of power, a pontiac 455 will fit the bill perfectly. You could almost do a stock rebuild and get that much. The 454 becomes more econimical around the 600 hp range when just about everything on the motor has to be aftermarket. That is a hard thing for me to say because I am a ford guy, and the grudge between ford and chevy is a little bigger in my opinion, but the truth is the truth.

[JSAauto]

A bone stock Poncho 455 makes about 500 ft lbs torque. Even at 8:1 compression and only 300hp stock (later emissions 455's), the torque is what moves the vehicle at low engine speeds. The BBC is not as fruitfull in the torque dept at the same RPM's due to it's rod/stroke/bore combo, but then again, the HP potential is MUCH greater when you are talking stock parts vs. stock parts, and its definetly in the BBC's favor.

A Rec port Chevy BB will easily go .060-.080 overbore producing a 468-471 cu in motor without touching the stock crank. With the right compression, heads, carb, and cam will easily make 700 hp. If you look at NHRA stock and super stock, you'll see the BBC and the Chrysler Hemis dominate the field. And they are making more than 700 hp using archaic iron parts. When you match what was available in stock form for these engines, the comparison is night and day.

I too am a professional engine builder and mechanic that has been racing Pontiacs for over 20 years. I love Pontiacs. I have respect for many many different engine manufactureres. Wanna see some really amazing "factory" racing parts, look at Honda and Mercedes. But common sense tells you that the BBC is really hard to beat when you use NHRA's standards. Because that's where the playing field is totally leveled. Well..... if you're a Poncho racer in a chevy/hemi world, you may not like NHRA's decisions sometimes to "level" that "playing field".

Someone mentioned weight as an issue. That is totally rediculous!! The BBC weighs less than a 455 Poncho. It's a fact. And the thing about the timing cover doesn't make sense. The timing cover on a Poncho requires removing 4 oil pan bolts, the Chevy requires removing 2. Grind/modify the area where the front oil pan seal lies on the BBC, and I can take my cover off and on all day without loosening the farther forward bolts on the oil pan. A little ultra grey silicone makes it leak proof. Or take my Comp Cams cover for instance.......... I don't have to do anything to get the cam out except remove 4 bolts for the water pump and an inspection plate. I haven't seen a cover like this for Ponchos?? Correct me if I'm wrong. On the Ponchos... you've got the leak potential of the water connection at the back of the timing cover meeting the forward intake manifold, and what seems like a million bolts holding on the water pump. Not sure which is worse though..... having to tighten a crank bolt to 150 ft. lbs. or use a harmonic balancer puller to take on and off the balancer. You decide.

I feel jumping all over 454TA is wrong, but I also know why he's getting the flack from the Poncho purests. SlinkyBMX posted in the right area of the PY board (Non Pontiac motors in Pontiacs) and so 454TA shouldn't be getting flack for that. If he's making a "guesstimated" 660hp from his BBC with small headers, small heads (oval ports), and a small carb, imagine how fast he would run if he were to install a pair of FACTORY rectangle port heads, put the right 2"+ headers on, a dominator, and a 5000 stall converter!! I don't think there would be many Poncho's normally aspirated keeping up with him even with RAV heads. Or maybe a walk over to the PSCA or any other "heads up" racing event will clear the air of the Ponchos vs Chevies arguement? Seems like its a Ford/Chevy domination most of the time.

Thankfully people are starting to make some REALLY NICE aftermarket pieces so the Ponchos can compete with the Bowtie boys (i.e. IA blocks, Tiger heads, etc). So now were going to start seeing alot more Ponchos knocking on the Fords and Chevies doors. Its about time. Will love to see a Bowtied 565 get it's ass handed to him by something that resembles a Poncho motor. Imagine the looks on their faces!!

Ask me?? I say put a factory 2006 Corvette LS7 427 motor in it and piss everyone off!! 505 horsepower, 475 ft lbs of torque, quiet, smooth idle, and gas milage!! LOL!!

http://www.corvettemuseum.com/specs/2006/LS7.shtml

[BVR421]

Originally Posted by JSAauto

Someone mentioned weight as an issue. That is totally rediculous!! The BBC weighs less than a 455 Poncho. It's a fact.

arent you getting a little ethusiastic? I lost nearly a hundred lbs replacing a iron head 454 with a ironhead 455

[Department X]

My 64 came with a 454 it runs ok but has been depressing trying to get the pontiac back under the hood . It seems the 454 likes every thing on the wrong side of the motor. As for the Ls1 Crap they aren't perfect, I have a friend who has been modifying his vett for years . He has had problems with the sleeves, burning oil, oilpan leaking, harmonic balancer and my favorite his short stubby crank (try to install supercharger). I don't like the power curve, nothing at idle ,nothind at 2500 500hp at 3000rpm

[JSAauto]

BVR421.... I may be wrong, but the last time I looked it up (years ago) I could swear they were lbs. away from each other. I'll have to check. But it sure seems like both the Poncho and the BBC make my engine stand lean just as badly.

Dept X.... yeah. I agree. The LS1 stuff has been a learning curve like anything else, but we've managed to work out any bugs they've had in the beginnings. If you're freind is having problems with the sleeves, then it sounds like a problem with his machinist, not the engine. Oil burning is also solved if the correct windage modifications were done to the block. And an oil pan leaking?? Sounds like he didn't seal it properly. One thing we never have is oil leaking issues with these motors, their gasketing is awesome. And again... we have absolutely no problem with blowers or mountings. Between Procharger and my friend Andy and A&A Corvette, we have made damn near 1000 rear wheel horsepower with customers cars on pump gas. And they are still very tame in the driveability dept.

I think for what he's looking for, the stock torque factor of the 455 will be more well suited for what this guy is going for.

I was basically throwing in the LS7 to stir the pot.

[Mr. P-Body]

JSAuto,

I agree with you completely on LSx. What an engine! Nothing's perfect, of course, but these little engines are awesome. Far and away, the best pushrod engines ever (IMO). I find it a bit ironic the bore/stroke for the "427" LS7 is actually the same as 428 (Pontiac). The more we change, the more we stay the same...

Rather than looking it up, you must actually WEIGH the blocks. Published data has a habit of being less than accurate. Nothing like actually doing the leg-work.

Jim

[JC455]

Sorry for the Hijack- Motroman, are you near Fresno?
Thanks, now back to the previously scheduled program.

[TA454]

Originally Posted by JSAauto

I feel jumping all over 454TA is wrong, but I also know why he's getting the flack from the Poncho purests. SlinkyBMX posted in the right area of the PY board (Non Pontiac motors in Pontiacs) and so 454TA shouldn't be getting flack for that. If he's making a "guesstimated" 660hp from his BBC with small headers, small heads (oval ports), and a small carb, imagine how fast he would run if he were to install a pair of FACTORY rectangle port heads, put the right 2"+ headers on, a dominator, and a 5000 stall converter!! I don't think there would be many Poncho's normally aspirated keeping up with him even with RAV heads.

Thanks JS I appreciate that

[7T2]

concensus figs i have seen vary slightly, but weights are generally as follows:

sbc 475lbs
pont 550lbs
bbc 625lbs

75lb delta is negligible when considering power potential. the ia and butler alum blocks have leveled the playing field in that area. the bbc still has the advantage in cyl heads, but pontiac has been and will be making up ground in that dept soon.
so you guys on the fence dont give up your 455 just yet!

[Cornholio]

This is interesting. The most common practice of building a Pontiac seems to be to swap in a Chevy....even the factory used them after the demise of the traditional Pontiac engine.
Does it make it right? Yes or no, depending on what side of the coin you're on.
It does bother me when I see a Chevy in a nice vintage Pontiac (or anything else for that matter). But there are times when money, resources, availability, or time conspire to make people lean towards the Chevy side.
I think TA is enjoying his car as much as anyone else is enjoying theirs.
I would never butcher anything highly desireable to put in a different motor, unless it was a basket case or in 'near death' condition.
But theres a difference between putting in a different motor and having the whole vehicle still intact, than letting it go to the crusher where it will never exist again!
Sometimes you have to take the lesser of two evils, and it seems like thats what TA was faced with when he got his car.
What I dislike, is that general "Chevy attitude" that lots of people have that states that 'only a Chevy is fast'.
I've learned to never underestimate anything. The first thing that usually happens is that the very thing you dismiss as being inferior, will be the very thing that whoops your ass!
I've heard all kinds of anti- Ford, Pontiac, Mopar, Buick, Olds, etc. propaganda from that elitist Chevy crowd.
Being biased can be dangerous! I can appriciate all musclecars! they all have their pro's & cons.
But it seems like some of these hard core Chevy guys like to force their opinions on everyone that only Chevy is so superior to everything else, that others are wasting their time if its not a Chevy.
Of course I disagree with that biased mentality, and then there are those Chevy guys who are not so 'militant' about it, but are rather calm, cool, and collected.
To each, their own, I guess. But those who have pumped up ego's always fall the hardest!
I like to see a Pontiac in a Pontiac......ultimately, its good for the soul!

[WhitecatD]

have any of you guys seen the movie Two Lane black Top?

[rich seibert]

saw a few minutes of it......... while surfing
chevy guys told a lie,it looked like a smallblock.........

[WhitecatD]

if your talking about the motor in the '55 then it was a big block. there is an easy way to tell chevy small blocks apart from big blocks. you look at the exhaust ports, if all four are evenly spaced then it is a big block, if there are two of them right next to each other in the middle then it is a small block.

[71SportRagtop]

I don't know what Chevy guys some of you are talking to??? I was a Chevy guy for about 15 years. I had respect for all makes and models. Ford, Chrysler, Buick and Pontiac all put out fast cars. You guys who are talking about the Chevy elitists are talking to the wrong people. Most of my buddies who were into Chevelles and Camaros also LOVED GTO's. Everyone knows GTO's were fast. So were Chevelles. So were 442's, and Buick GS's. If you don't know that you are in the wrong hobby.

Let's look at it another way take 1970:

70 GS Stage 1
70 Chevelle L-S6
70 442 W-30
70 GTO 400 Ram Air IV
70 426 Hemi Cuda
69-1/2 440 6 pack Road Runner

All fast, all great looking cars. On any given day not one of them is going to totally dominate the field. One day the Chevelle might be the top car and the next it might be the GTO, or the Hemi. What about engine trans combo's?? You guys make blanket statements about motors you don't consider the set up. I'll take a small block 4 speed Camaro with 3:73 gears and smoke you're fully loaded 400, auto, 3:23 geared, air conditioned GTO anyday. Does that make Chevy better than Pontiac?? NO, only if you don't know what you're talking about. The next day someone else's 400 Ram Air 68 Firebird might smoke a big block Chevelle. There is more to racing/power than engine size. I'll tell you Pontiac purists one thing, in all the musclecar stock drags I have ever read about it's usually a GS Stage 1, a Hemi Mopar and a big block Camaro that dominate. I have read a lot about the pure stock drags and those are usually the 3 big hitters. I don't see too many Pontiacs making it deep into the finals.

I don't even want to get into the driver himself. I don't care if you have 600HP on tap if you can't drive, I'll smoke you with my 97 Tahoe.

Look last time I looked it was a free country, if TA454 wants to run a big block Chevy in his TA, what do I care?? Running a big block Chevy in a track car is fine in my book. If he had a 70 Judge Convertible and he pulled out the Ram Air IV for a 454 then I might think he's got a screw loose.

I like Pontiac and Chevy the best. For a lot of years I had Chevelles, but I really liked GTO's as well. My 67 Chevelle with a SMALL BLOCK ran 13.34. I built the motor for about $2000.00. That's pretty cheap to get low 13's on street tires. When I came across a nice Pontiac convertible, I sold my Chevelle and bought the Pontiac. Personally, my Pontiac is kind of rare (1 of 2800 made) so I will stick to a Pontiac motor. But I don't see why it's such a cardinal sin for a guy to drop a big block Chevy in his track car. Give the guy a break his car runs in the 10's. That's faster than I have ever run.

[68addict]

71 sportragtop.....well said!!!!

I love goats but I love superbee six pack cars from 69...too LOL

[Velox65]

Get a pair of these for a 421 and run em against a BBC and we'll see who win's