#21  
Old 12-15-2016, 10:10 AM
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HO428, what's difficult about building a 600 hp 310 ci Pontiac? A 400 block,short stroke crank, good heads and cam, I don't see 8000rpm and 600 hp an issue.

  #22  
Old 12-15-2016, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by taff2 View Post
HO428, what's difficult about building a 600 hp 310 ci Pontiac? A 400 block,short stroke crank, good heads and cam, I don't see 8000rpm and 600 hp an issue.
HO428, In 1972, a friend built a 366 Pontiac engine with RA-IV heads (3.375" stroke) that would run with old school roller camshafts/spring technology to 8500 rpm.
He did not do the 7.080" long rod deal but used 421 SD connecting rods and a long compression height light weight piston and pin.

A 310" engine would require a custom short stroke crank and probably a 7.240" long rod but it would be a very durable 8500 rpm package. Remember "All of the rotating mass and 1/2 of the reciprocating mass".

Tom V.

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  #23  
Old 12-15-2016, 11:20 AM
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Building a 4.0 x 3.0 Pontiac, short deck, is a custom one off engine. Also, getting over 2 hp per cu in from said engine is trial and error. Running 8000 rpm for an hour several times a weekend is another unknown.
If lightweight short deck blocks were readily available, 3" strk cranks, perhaps with smaller mains, intakes and headers, maybe, but none of that is off the shelf.
It can all be done, but a sbc is basically orderable from multiple sources.

Not trying to detour Curt's thread, but I understand the swimming against the tide, after awhile it becomes futile.

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Old 12-15-2016, 11:22 AM
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I'm in the same boat. Right now I'm in a class with very few cars that was created for us misfits. To build a correct AS or HTA car I'd need a 310 cu in or less engine, and to be competitive it needs to spin over 8000 and have at least 600 hp.
To do that I'll need a dry sump sbc. Modern LS isn't allowed.
If the misfit class doesn't grow more cars then some point I'll probably have to make the switch, but it's not something I want to do.
Building a short deck small cube short stroke Pontiac is just about impossible when a SBC is basically off the shelf, down to the headers and intake.
I do get a lot of kudo's at the track for doing it differently but that doesn't make it any faster.
Very very doable. Without exotic parts

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Old 12-15-2016, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ho428 View Post
Building a 4.0 x 3.0 Pontiac, short deck, is a custom one off engine. Also, getting over 2 hp per cu in from said engine is trial and error. Running 8000 rpm for an hour several times a weekend is another unknown.
If lightweight short deck blocks were readily available, 3" strk cranks, perhaps with smaller mains, intakes and headers, maybe, but none of that is off the shelf.
It can all be done, but a sbc is basically orderable from multiple sources.

Not trying to detour Curt's thread, but I understand the swimming against the tide, after awhile it becomes futile.

301t block?

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Old 12-15-2016, 04:21 PM
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301t block?
I'd honestly be afraid to sink that much money into a one off race engine built around a 301T block.

  #27  
Old 12-15-2016, 04:47 PM
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Mike, can you lay out a non-all out plan for your comment on "very, very doable". "Without exotic parts". I've always dreamed of building a high RPM small cube Pontiac but like ho428 said, basing it off of a 301T, while doable, I don't think it would be very reliable. I started out to build a 370 using a '58 block and original forged crank, but the big detour for me was finding main bearings. I never went any deeper than easily available bearings (having special specific bearings made etc., if that is even possible) and then fighting the rear bell housing changeover (which I did do on my present '60 389 block 406. Anyway. If you know of an easier available/usable block I would be grateful to hear about. Although I'm not sure I'll ever get to building any small cube Pontiacs in my time line anymore. Getting too old and too broke, LOL!Thanks Mike.

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Old 12-15-2016, 04:48 PM
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Does anyone know if the big bearing companies will even build special spec bearings or even make some off of your old stock bearings? I never got that far. I did find a full set from EGGE but they could not tell me where they came from, who made them, or of their composition. The only markings were the sizes stamped on the back, nothing else. I tried having spacers made by a machine shop but that turned out to be a mess, and then it came to making or adapting a rear seal. That really did it in.
I know John Kaase did it for his Engine Masters build a while ago, so I guess I should ask him if he would divulge his secrets. I know he's a good guy to talk to.

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Old 12-15-2016, 05:22 PM
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I'm still waiting to hear what parts Curt gave up on that drove him to his decision.
Must be some exotic stuff since most of what's out there is out there.

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Old 12-15-2016, 07:33 PM
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I'm still waiting to hear what parts Curt gave up on that drove him to his decision.
Must be some exotic stuff since most of what's out there is out there.
Almost any one part can be acquired fairly quickly if you want and need it badly enough. I don't think that was Curt's point. But if you want to build a Pontiac engine that can do certain things very well(maybe even best), it is quite a process to get it done. We are trying to do something that hasn't already been done a thousand times. Or you can make a phone call or two and get a Chevy that has been proven to do exactly what you need.

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  #31  
Old 12-15-2016, 09:25 PM
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[QUOTE. Or you can make a phone call or two and get a Chevy that has been proven to do exactly what you need.[/QUOTE]
Where's the challenge in that!

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Old 12-15-2016, 10:00 PM
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If this was a machine shop issue then how does switching brands help?

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Old 12-16-2016, 04:00 AM
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Curt do you still have the Twin 88 Turbo GTO > Pontiac power 455 Style - sure liked that car. Saw it run a 6.99 in the 1/4 mile on Pass Time - the Pass Time Host and panel sure raved about it

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Old 12-16-2016, 01:17 PM
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It was not a machine shop issue --- you have all seen on this board the different "new" products that seem to take years to actually hit the work bench -- excuse after excuse I have run into that one to many time, as I have talked to a lot of guys since posting this issue it seems a lot are in the same boat -- ie; cant get a block -- or cant get heads for 2 or 3 years. Carrying the Pontiac banner was always fun for me but it has become way to much of a burden anymore -- Kinda sad really -- guys with a pocket full of money and vendors can not get there act together.

  #35  
Old 12-16-2016, 01:18 PM
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Curt do you still have the Twin 88 Turbo GTO > Pontiac power 455 Style - sure liked that car. Saw it run a 6.99 in the 1/4 mile on Pass Time - the Pass Time Host and panel sure raved about it
no it got sold - thanks for asking

  #36  
Old 12-16-2016, 01:19 PM
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[QUOTE. Or you can make a phone call or two and get a Chevy that has been proven to do exactly what you need.
Where's the challenge in that![/QUOTE]

And that's what I did -- on my door step in 3 weeks dyno tested and ready to go

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Old 12-16-2016, 01:47 PM
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Where's the challenge in that!
And that's what I did -- on my door step in 3 weeks dyno tested and ready to go[/QUOTE] Really?

  #38  
Old 12-16-2016, 02:02 PM
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Where's the challenge in that!
And that's what I did -- on my door step in 3 weeks dyno tested and ready to go[/QUOTE]

Are you saying you changed directions and it didn't take a minimum of a year to FINALLY GET BACK ON THE TRACK?
I'm sure it'll be some decent Cubic inches and some pretty good power...... Care to share some info on the new bullet for your bada$$ whip?

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  #39  
Old 12-16-2016, 04:26 PM
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What class are you running in?
What CID and HP of the new engine?
Price?



I thought you ran Super Comp or something?


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  #40  
Old 12-16-2016, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by cgeise View Post
It was not a machine shop issue --- you have all seen on this board the different "new" products that seem to take years to actually hit the work bench -- excuse after excuse I have run into that one to many time, as I have talked to a lot of guys since posting this issue it seems a lot are in the same boat -- ie; cant get a block -- or cant get heads for 2 or 3 years. Carrying the Pontiac banner was always fun for me but it has become way to much of a burden anymore -- Kinda sad really -- guys with a pocket full of money and vendors can not get there act together.
So Chief runs 6.30's with an almost stock set of E-Heads.....blocks are pretty easy to get, I give.


GTO George

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