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#61
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John V., direct the question to Mike Noun, he should be able to answer your question on the hours line.
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#62
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Quote:
to clarify, rolling change on paperwork and documented book from GM. This was a clear oversight in some books as it was too expensive the change everything. Just saying.
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White/Blue 71 455 HO T/A Auto Blue/Blue 71 455 HO T/A 4 Sp White/Sandalwood 71 455 HO T/A 4 Sp White/Black 70 RAIII T/A M21/373 (stripper) Carousel Red/Black 69 GTO Judge 4 Sp 2002 Firehawk Red/Black 6Sp |
#63
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Quote:
You can clearly see the surface of your block is not ground on. You can see the broach marks under the entire rebuilders stamp. No grinding in that area. Only way this is fake is if someone re-broached this block in the same manner as GM did and had the exact same stamps to forge it. No way in hell this is even questionable. Rolling change of GM paperwork and books is to blame simple as that. Glad you did not panic like the original owner. Enjoy you numbers matching car.
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White/Blue 71 455 HO T/A Auto Blue/Blue 71 455 HO T/A 4 Sp White/Sandalwood 71 455 HO T/A 4 Sp White/Black 70 RAIII T/A M21/373 (stripper) Carousel Red/Black 69 GTO Judge 4 Sp 2002 Firehawk Red/Black 6Sp |
#64
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Quote:
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White/Blue 71 455 HO T/A Auto Blue/Blue 71 455 HO T/A 4 Sp White/Sandalwood 71 455 HO T/A 4 Sp White/Black 70 RAIII T/A M21/373 (stripper) Carousel Red/Black 69 GTO Judge 4 Sp 2002 Firehawk Red/Black 6Sp |
#65
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Quote:
And lets just add things up here - bondo and re-stamp on Engine stamp (proves someone had access to correct stamps and the intent to defraud), Grinding & large numbers where VIN SHOULD BE and then matching VIN in wrong place. I'm not arguing Engine code, timing of VIN or casting date or anything else but when someone has monkeyed with a block to this extent, I would question it! If you don't form questions after all of this....well, I'll end it there!
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Some guys they just give up living And start dying little by little, piece by piece, Some guys come home from work and wash up, And go racin' in the street. Bruce Springsteen - Racing In The Street - 1978 |
#66
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Boss,
I can see the consistent broach marks under the 5 digit stamp that is not the correct font for any( and I do mean any) font used by all and I do mean all GM assembly plants. That means Chevy, Poncho, Buick, Olds and Corvette. So your argument is not valid. The font on the 5 digit vertical stamp would have to be correct for your point to be valid and it is clearly not. The marks above it look like razor blade scrapper marks or scuff marks. See it all the time as I do my own rebuilding of these engines. Plus these blocks get drug around on the rebuilders floor and scrapes are added all the time to the faces. Not to mention that The VIN you say is in the wrong place is not wrong. I have seen a bunch of these stamped this way. Got 3 455 HO TA's at the house from Norwood right now that look the same. Robots did not stamp these blocks. I have my Numbers match 1970 RAIII TA WS block that has a rebuilders stamp over the first part of my VIN on the block so I guess by your standards its questionable. I have rebuilt more than 500 motors over the years and have a good pic library of motor stamps. Questions yes but reasonably explainable BIG YES. Upper code is correct and so is the lower VIN and has correct broach under the VIN. If this block was faked it would have had to have been a non VIN stamped block with correct date and someone had access to the original stamps. Highly unlikely since everything else looks correct. but if you think there is something wrong then so be it. Hard to convince some people because they hate to be wrong no matter what. I know it is 100% legit. Quote:
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White/Blue 71 455 HO T/A Auto Blue/Blue 71 455 HO T/A 4 Sp White/Sandalwood 71 455 HO T/A 4 Sp White/Black 70 RAIII T/A M21/373 (stripper) Carousel Red/Black 69 GTO Judge 4 Sp 2002 Firehawk Red/Black 6Sp Last edited by skunkwerks; 07-18-2017 at 12:55 PM. |
#67
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1st Pic of 1973 TA Norwood Vin stamp on Motor. 2nd 1970TA and 3rd 1970 WS code. Click on pic for larger image. Kind of looks familiar. which one is fake?
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White/Blue 71 455 HO T/A Auto Blue/Blue 71 455 HO T/A 4 Sp White/Sandalwood 71 455 HO T/A 4 Sp White/Black 70 RAIII T/A M21/373 (stripper) Carousel Red/Black 69 GTO Judge 4 Sp 2002 Firehawk Red/Black 6Sp Last edited by skunkwerks; 07-18-2017 at 01:49 PM. |
#68
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Scrape mark from being dragged across the floor? Razor blade? Is that honestly your explanation for those marks? Seriously?
I see the broach marks too - but we aren't talking about the broach marks. You could build a million motors & I still wouldn't like this one - thankfully I don't have to!
__________________
Some guys they just give up living And start dying little by little, piece by piece, Some guys come home from work and wash up, And go racin' in the street. Bruce Springsteen - Racing In The Street - 1978 |
#69
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Ok Boss,
So provide one vin stamp from any GM assembly plant the matches up with your explanation and I will deem your argument valid. Until them I am more right than you will ever be with your flimsy reasoning. Yup, building as many motors as I have and taken pictures of all of them plus more does give me a good idea of what is fake and what is real. Lets see you post some evidence to back up your story. Put up or shut up. Quote:
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White/Blue 71 455 HO T/A Auto Blue/Blue 71 455 HO T/A 4 Sp White/Sandalwood 71 455 HO T/A 4 Sp White/Black 70 RAIII T/A M21/373 (stripper) Carousel Red/Black 69 GTO Judge 4 Sp 2002 Firehawk Red/Black 6Sp |
#70
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Quote:
Just like you I've seen a lot of blocks - I have seen a block stamped with a Pontiac plant VIN in small font - clearly a fraud and if I told you the car you would know it. We've seen blocks stamped with the VIN in the EUN location - also frauds! So don't act like this one is an absolute, because unless it's been in your living room it's entire life you cannot say definitively what has happened with it! If you want to come back for another round - change your tone, I don't argue with children!
__________________
Some guys they just give up living And start dying little by little, piece by piece, Some guys come home from work and wash up, And go racin' in the street. Bruce Springsteen - Racing In The Street - 1978 |
#71
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Just so you know, your last demand for me to produce proof is an argument from ignorance. My lack of proving that is a vin in no way proves the block is legit.
Quote:
__________________
Some guys they just give up living And start dying little by little, piece by piece, Some guys come home from work and wash up, And go racin' in the street. Bruce Springsteen - Racing In The Street - 1978 |
#72
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Wore my "I'M EVIL" T-shirt today, so I thought I'd share my 1973 Oldsmobile VIN stamp. Along with it's transmission.
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#73
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Last night I was looking for info about certain '72 Engine Codes related to the thread on "Interesting block stampings". Haven't found what I was looking for yet but I came across something that pertains to this thread.
Back in '99, I helped a guy decipher the Engine Code on his '73 TA. Turns out he also had a TA first delivered to California with the Cal Emissions Test requirement. His block was VIN matched and he was trying to learn why the "ZC" code stamped on it was not listed for Firebird use in the reference books. He was also being led to believe by other hobbyists that the "correct" code for his TA was YC according to available references. Sound familiar? The subject car was built March, '73. He explained that the engine appeared original, no indications of tampering of codes, and the engine had never even been repainted. But since the reference books didn't list the ZC for the TA he was questioning if it could be a transplant. The EUN was 444xxx, so prior to the March 15 EGR change. I concluded then that the reference books were wrong and his ZC was correct for his Calif delivered TA and VIN matched. Reached the same conclusion about the ZC this time around. Kinda interesting that the ZC in a TA remains a mystery 18 years after I first encountered one. The owner of the earlier TA even fretted that it wouldn't be easy to have the hobby accept the ZC even if he discovered other '73 TAs with the ZC (or ZA code for the K65 option that we also discussed at that time) since the facts about it were unpublished. I had certainly forgotten about the earlier encounter. I have added notes to my own reference material about the ZC and ZA usage for the F Body. But I'll bet it will still be an enigma 18 years from now in the general TA community. |
#74
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Boss,
So let me get this straight. You called me blind in your previous post and I am somehow a child by pointing out your BS argument. Hmmm. So let me see if I understand your position. You are saying that because of the accidental or intentional grinding and the extra stamped numbers on the face of this block somehow invalidates the other correct stamps on this block and you would call this questionable and would not purchase this car as numbers matching? Glad all your stuff is perfectly stamped and correct. The robots were in good form on the day they made your cars. Your argument does not invalidate the correctness of the other stamps (my whole argument that seems to be lost with your sense of perfection). Stuff happens to these motors. If you cannot see that this stuff does not have to be perfect to be correct I feel for anyone that has to deal with your everything has to be perfect concept. Enuff said. We agree to disagree and leave it at that. I don't think I resorted to calling you names first. You started that. Quote:
__________________
White/Blue 71 455 HO T/A Auto Blue/Blue 71 455 HO T/A 4 Sp White/Sandalwood 71 455 HO T/A 4 Sp White/Black 70 RAIII T/A M21/373 (stripper) Carousel Red/Black 69 GTO Judge 4 Sp 2002 Firehawk Red/Black 6Sp |
#75
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Quote:
We can agree to disagree.
__________________
Some guys they just give up living And start dying little by little, piece by piece, Some guys come home from work and wash up, And go racin' in the street. Bruce Springsteen - Racing In The Street - 1978 |
#76
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Everyone keeps mentioning the XL stamp. Why is it I can't see any evidence of it? Even if it was stamped in Bondo, one should see the stamping.
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#77
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The XL stamping was scraped off along with the timing chain cover gasket.
Maybe if the Boss asks real nice I'll give him a coarse in fabrication so he knows what grinding looks like and does to a flat surface. |
#78
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I tried showing what a surface can look like, on my "Oldsmobile" Pontiac engine. I took a razor blade scraper to it.
I don't get how, if it was stamped, you can erase it. Even if it was stamped in Bondo. |
#79
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You can see the xl stamp in this pic. When the bondo came off, the stamp came off, it wasn't stamped through the bondo. Probably was about 1/16" to 1/8" swipe of bondo. Even have a pic of scraping the bondo off revealing the ZC code and previously hidden eun number. The mastermind then painted the whole front and top of the motor in the car getting overspray on the firewall. This was surely to hide the fake stamp. I doubt there is any realation to that and the unknown verticle stamp on the block.
For "the boss" there are a couple ground numbers in the thread "interesting block stampings", so you know what grinding on numbers and blocks looks like next time. |
#80
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So, they covered up the EUN stamping too. Man, that's a lot of mud, to cover up what? The correct numbers? Leaving more questions than answers.
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