[grivera]

After I sort out my engine issues I too will be buying one!

[WARPed]

This a modern version of a TBI system, the manifold is still wet. A true EFI will be a dry manifold.

[Nicks67GTO]

Originally Posted by WARPed

This a modern version of a TBI system, the manifold is still wet. A true EFI will be a dry manifold.

Yep....but you're talking 1/3 of the price

As long as you look at it like a maintenance free carb that bolts on, tunes itself, adjusts to altitude and weather on the fly, controls your timing and allows you to mess with it via HMI instead of a screwdriver you should be good.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by WARPed

This a modern version of a TBI system, the manifold is still wet. A true EFI will be a dry manifold.

While true, this is really arguing semantics.

You make a crucial note about the wet manifold though, these are things that the FiTech unit actually takes note of in it's programming. As well I'm sure the other units do as well.

The FiTech unit has decel fuel cut like modern ECU's, the problem is that dries up the manifold and effects fueling calculations. After a period of fuel cut, the unit reprimes itself to wet the intake and provide proper tip-in operation when throttle returns.

This is one of the many functions that you can change on the fly with the hendheld. The pdf below has definitions for all of these parameters.

http://www.fitechefi.com/virtualoffi...efinitions.pdf

[WARPed]

My intent is not to take anything away from the modern TBI systems of today but rather clarify that it isn't a true EFI. It does make one wonder why the automotive manufactures had moved away from the TBI and adapted the EFI, and we all know it wasn't a cost saving measure.

[Nicks67GTO]

Originally Posted by WARPed

My intent is not to take anything away from the modern TBI systems of today but rather clarify that it isn't a true EFI. It does make one wonder why the automotive manufactures had moved away from the TBI and adapted the EFI, and we all know it wasn't a cost saving measure.

The OEM hasn't put a carb on cars since '86? But we all still use them. Multi port is superior to TBI but it sounds like guys are having really good luck wit these TBI units. Again I just see this as a carb that tunes itself has some neat features, runs it's own timing and won't die when I slam on the brakes doing speed stop challenges like my Qjet did almost every run at Street Machine Nationals.

[Will]

Originally Posted by WARPed

My intent is not to take anything away from the modern TBI systems of today but rather clarify that it isn't a true EFI. It does make one wonder why the automotive manufactures had moved away from the TBI and adapted the EFI, and we all know it wasn't a cost saving measure.

Why argue semantics? "EFI" stands for Electronic Fuel Injection which encompasses both TBI and various port fuel injection (batch fire or SPFI) systems.

Manufacturers went to port injection systems (and now direct injection) because they're more efficient. Adapting them to old cars is also more complex and expensive, which is why TBI systems like this are popular alternatives to carbs for those who don't want all the work/expense of a port injection system. AFAIK, there are also no readily available true purpose-built SPFI manifolds for Pontiacs. (Think TPI or LSx dry-flow designs adapted to Pontiac)

But you knew all that, right?

I'm really interested in this system. I want to be able to drive my car on long road trips which means varying atmospheric conditions as well as varying gas. The engine will have a good sized roller cam in it. This system holds the promise of getting the best possible efficiency AND adaptability to changing conditions for a modest price.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Yeah, it won't have the precision,efficiency or throttle response of a SEFI or even a bank/batch fired EFI system, but the results from the dyno thread appear to show power levels to be very comparable to a carb. The constant self tuning should eliminate a lot of the driveability problems many carbed car owners are plagued with, espically with ethanol laced fuels. I do find this deal to be an attractive option, possibly for myself, especially at the current price point.
The weak link, I think, may be the ecu being atop a hot engine, but just speculating.

[6t7goat]

Originally Posted by STEELCITYFIREBIRD

Yeah, it won't have the precision,efficiency or throttle response of a SEFI or even a bank/batch fired EFI system, but the results from the dyno thread appear to show power levels to be very comparable to a carb. The constant self tuning should eliminate a lot of the driveability problems many carbed car owners are plagued with, espically with ethanol laced fuels. I do find this deal to be an attractive option, possibly for myself, especially at the current price point.
The weak link, I think, may be the ecu being atop a hot engine, but just speculating.

The ECU has a lifetime warranty

[FrankieT/A]

If you want to get technical; it's not even fuel injection. It's fuel induction.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Good stuff. I'm weighing the pro's and cons, scratch that from the list. Any other pro's,con's or deficiencies that should be considered? Also vs other systems out there?
Man there is a lot to take in within this thread, some opinion, some fact, some unclear.

[angelo]

The industry calls tbi "fuel injection", even if they don't sell them anymore. With the same logic one could now call tuned port injection not true fuel injection now that there is "direct injection", and when the industry replaces direct injection with something we haven't thought of 10-20 years from now, then we can all say tbi, tpi and di was never really real fuel injection. I do believe technology makes old tech obsolete, but perhaps not always necessary. Does a calculator today out perform a calculator from the 80's yes, but you still get the same answers. Can you still call an abacus a calculator just because today we have true calculators that use electricity?

Don't forget they had fuel injection in the 50's bonevilles.

As for the label, you can call these fitech fuel thingy's "flux capacitors", I am glad I got one, its eliminated one of the complicated parts of the maintenance of my Trans Am.

[grivera]

A great selling point of the FiTech system is that it is only a few hundred dollars more than a nice carburetor. I can see the hesitation for the $2k systems.

[FrankieT/A]

Originally Posted by grivera

A great selling point of the FiTech system is that it is only a few hundred dollars more than a nice carburetor. I can see the hesitation for the $2k systems.

I agree whole heartedly. A nice tunable carburetor is in the $800.00 range. And when I say "tunable", you still have to tune it. You still have to deal with manifold adaptation if you use a spreadbore intake, so that's a wash. I would much rather hook up four wires and pay an extra $200.00 and be done with it. So, this thing tunes itself while I drive? Please let me know when someone comes up with something that will change my oil while I'm driving. Ill be all over that too. Ill really be in heaven.

[WARPed]

again, the only point I was making is that the injectors are in the throttle body and not port injected. not saying anything of how well this (or other modern TBI systems) perform. I would hate to see a fellow Pontiac member buy one of this type of system thinking they are going to get a true EFI system.

[1966socalgoat]

I just picked up the 600hp power adder unit on Friday. I had the car runnning in 2.5 hrs. Needless to say i had a batch fire system running microsquirt which i could never get to trigger right so the fuel system and the O2 sensor were already present. Amazingly easy to install and literally my car started up in 2 seconds. The system runs very well. It may not have all the bells and whistles other "true" FI system has but for 99% of the people i think it will work fine. Also take note that people running port fuel injection have started moving their injectors father away to make more power, likely due to fuel atomization.

In short, if you are looking for a simple system that will always be in tune, hard to beat the FITech unit.

[John62]

Someone mentioned here that it uses the Bosch 4.9 sensor now and the 4.2 is better. I called them and they said they will change in about 6 months. I want to get one of these but winter is coming so should I wait. Is this an important change? I don't know what the difference is.

[angelo]

You have that reversed. The 4.9 sensor is superior. Technically it is just more accurate further from the optimal ratio of 14.7:1 and they have a better reputation for lasting longer, but for a hot rod your not putting 100k miles on it to worry about how long it will last.

I have the newer aem air fuel gauge that uses a 4.9L sensor, when the fitech is on the lean side it appears to be spot on, but when it is in the rich range it appears to be off up to one point. Closer to 14.7 it's more accurate. As I understand it, when the system is in closed loop mode it varies up/down, so I don't think it would be that much more efficient with the newer 4.9 sensor, but it could make all the difference if your trying to pass an emissions test.

You cannot swap the sensors, the fitech internals have to have the right logic chips to read the sensor. If you really want a 4.9l sensor then you will have to wait.

I read that the 4.9 sensors became standard in most cars around 2007. Plenty of cars that still on the road running fine with 4.2 sensors.

[John62]

Originally Posted by angelo

You have that reversed. The 4.9 sensor is superior. Technically it is just more accurate further from the optimal ratio of 14.7:1 and they have a better reputation for lasting longer, but for a hot rod your not putting 100k miles on it to worry about how long it will last.

I have the newer aem air fuel gauge that uses a 4.9L sensor, when the fitech is on the lean side it appears to be spot on, but when it is in the rich range it appears to be off up to one point. Closer to 14.7 it's more accurate. As I understand it, when the system is in closed loop mode it varies up/down, so I don't think it would be that much more efficient with the newer 4.9 sensor, but it could make all the difference if your trying to pass an emissions test.

You cannot swap the sensors, the fitech internals have to have the right logic chips to read the sensor. If you really want a 4.9l sensor then you will have to wait.
I read that the 4.9 sensors became standard in most cars around 2007. Plenty of cars that still on the road running fine with 4.2 sensors.

Thanks angelo, no emissions in my state so I will do it whenever. Makes me wonder why they didn't start with the 4.9 since its been out for 8 years.

[angelo]

Cost I bet. The 4.2 sensors are 1/2 to 1/3 the price of a 4.9.