#21  
Old 08-14-2020, 04:52 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Humbolt County California
Posts: 8,284
Default

I bought some rockers "on sale". I got them but other people had theirs back ordered then received them. I was told they are going completely to SS or CM for their rocker arms.
Maybe Mike is right, it increases sales.

  #22  
Old 08-14-2020, 04:56 PM
Bill Eveland's Avatar
Bill Eveland Bill Eveland is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Glasford Il
Posts: 3,650
Default

I bought my Molnar rods from Paul K. I'd rather support a Pontiac guy. Had them shipped right to my door, great service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragncar View Post
Ordered a new set of Molnar 6.8 rods from Lewis Racing Engines. I will pull the crank back out and take everything down there. He charges a lot more than the local shop that balances engines. But if I went to him in the first place I would have been better off. The local shop that balanced the rotating assembly (only thing they did) just went off the Crower tag and did not actually weigh each rod.
Mike would have found it right away, he does very high end stuff. Good thing I found it myself.

__________________
Illinois Outlaw Gassers

6.27@107
9.97@131
The Following User Says Thank You to Bill Eveland For This Useful Post:
  #23  
Old 08-14-2020, 05:41 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,035
Default

Paul K is a Pontiac guy and must be a Molnar Vendor? Tom Molnar is a nice guy, I spent a good bit of time talking with him at PRI last year. I will also say Crower has been a strong supporter of our racing efforts for over 25 years. When other manufacturers would flat out refuse to make the hard parts we needed for the Grocery Getter and the Boss Bird at ANY price, Crower was always willing and able to make the pieces we needed. Always the highest quality, beautiful finish and accurate. We used their billet crankshafts with special machining requirements, lifters special one-off stuff, one of a kind all titanium 4 disc clutch to fit a Pontiac crankshaft and other pieces. We paid plenty for the parts, but as stated, you get what you pay for with Crower and they stand behind their products in extreme use within reason. I don't think a reasonable serious racer would honestly compare Eagle, RPM, Ohio Crankshaft, and the rest of that Chinese stuff to a Crower, Manley or Carillo connecting rod. Molnar is interesting because they do at least machine and perform QC in the US. I wouldn't be afraid to try them.

  #24  
Old 08-14-2020, 06:04 PM
MarkS57's Avatar
MarkS57 MarkS57 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Flemington, NJ
Posts: 575
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 64-3Deuces View Post
Cliff R,
I ordered a set of the Sportsmans rods for the sale price listed in the OP. The order was accepted and confirmed though as stated there is a backlog for the rods. Not sure where the idea that Pontiac rods will no longer be available came from.
I placed an order too. No confirmation yet but they charged my credit card so we'll see. Looks like 7 weeks out. For my "retirement engine build" in the future (not too far away I hope) so no rush on my part. 4 bolt main 428. Trying to keep it USA as much as I possibly can.

__________________

65 Tempest, 400, TH400
86 Fiero SE 2.8
  #25  
Old 08-14-2020, 09:43 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Humbolt County California
Posts: 8,284
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
Paul K is a Pontiac guy and must be a Molnar Vendor? Tom Molnar is a nice guy, I spent a good bit of time talking with him at PRI last year. I will also say Crower has been a strong supporter of our racing efforts for over 25 years. When other manufacturers would flat out refuse to make the hard parts we needed for the Grocery Getter and the Boss Bird at ANY price, Crower was always willing and able to make the pieces we needed. Always the highest quality, beautiful finish and accurate. We used their billet crankshafts with special machining requirements, lifters special one-off stuff, one of a kind all titanium 4 disc clutch to fit a Pontiac crankshaft and other pieces. We paid plenty for the parts, but as stated, you get what you pay for with Crower and they stand behind their products in extreme use within reason. I don't think a reasonable serious racer would honestly compare Eagle, RPM, Ohio Crankshaft, and the rest of that Chinese stuff to a Crower, Manley or Carillo connecting rod. Molnar is interesting because they do at least machine and perform QC in the US. I wouldn't be afraid to try them.
Lewis called up Tom M and ordered them himself, they go way back. Tom is a very interesting guy to talk to about rods and cranks. Molnar uses ARP 2000 bolts on all their rods. Even the Power Adder + rods. Says they are good for well over 2000HP. While Crower uses those ARP 260,000 psi bolts you can no touch with your bare hands. Tom calls them "snake oil".
I still am going to have the 2 Crower Midweight billets made. Just want to have a full set around.
If anyone needs a couple spare Crower 6.8 heavyweight billets, I have a couple. cheap !

  #26  
Old 08-14-2020, 10:01 PM
AG's Avatar
AG AG is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: NH
Posts: 3,240
Default

My Crower 6.625" sportsman rods are 819 g, heavier than my Eagle 6.625" rods at 765 g.

__________________
1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
  #27  
Old 08-15-2020, 12:51 PM
straycat's Avatar
straycat straycat is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: lehigh valley,pa usa
Posts: 728
Default

What about Howards 4340 rods with ARP 2000 bolts, 760 grams? Thought they were made in USA but read somewhere machined in US. Under $1000.

  #28  
Old 08-15-2020, 05:49 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Humbolt County California
Posts: 8,284
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by straycat View Post
What about Howards 4340 rods with ARP 2000 bolts, 760 grams? Thought they were made in USA but read somewhere machined in US. Under $1000.
If a Molnar 6.8 BBC rod is only 749 grams and good to over 1000HP, machined completely in the USA with proprietary ARP 2000 bolts and cost only 627$ "that" seems like the logical choice for the vast majority of Pontiac builds.
Unless the person is dead set on a USA made rod then more power too them.

If you look at a Molnar rod you will notice that the beam is narrower than a Eagle or Scat. The downward force of the piston pushes on this H beam that is thicker in the right places and narrower in the right places.
Here is a picture of the cross sections of from left to right a Molnar rod, then a "I" beam rod and a Eagle on the right.
Notice how the Eagle has "thin" beams. A little more than 1/8". Thats a problem with high horsepower builds. Dan Whitmore told me years ago he did not trust the Eagle rod on big power builds and defiantly not to be used in N20 builds. So he ordered me Crower Sportsman rods and I stupidly sold them. (only 620$ mack then)
Tom Molnar gave me a long lesson in forged rods and cranks, very nice guy and as smart as they get.
He describes how a typical Eagle/Scat road fails . The thin part of the beam gets ever so slightly "wavy" when is is about to go. Then the pin is pushed straight down through that thin beam that is also too wide side to side. Like splitting a log with a ax as he described it.
That is why the Molnar rod is more narrow side to side and the "H" part of the beams are heavier. Plenty of meat in the right places and no wasted weight other places. Molnar rods look different for a reason.
It seems Dan Whitmore and Tom Molnar think a lot alike. Even though the probably never met. Great minds IMO.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170211_104123576_HDR(1).jpg
Views:	170
Size:	37.2 KB
ID:	547295  

  #29  
Old 08-15-2020, 06:40 PM
firechicken's Avatar
firechicken firechicken is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 1,624
Default

At what bobweight and rpm is that rod good for at 1000 hp?

  #30  
Old 08-15-2020, 10:31 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Humbolt County California
Posts: 8,284
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by firechicken View Post
At what bobweight and rpm is that rod good for at 1000 hp?
Not sure about big end and small end weights. I will write them down when Mike balances it all next week. I can ask him how far he has pushed them with RPM and horsepower. Scott B told me they have plenty of Molnar builds that are 900+ HP with one guy going near 1200. He sent me a pic of this Hemi build, looks stock on the outside. 900 horsepower, pretty cool build.
The standard 6.8 rod is 749 grams total. The Power Adder rods I have are 817 grams. There is no big and and small end weight tags like Crower and RPM have in their boxes.

My previous post, conversation with Tom. Correction, the I beams split like a log and the H beams get wavy and crumple when they fail.
Tom said to always check if the pin is in the piston or not on a blown engine. If the pin is still on the rod its the piston that failed and not the rod.
They have not yet had a blown engine with Molnar rods where the piston/pin was in perfect shape and the rod was snapped in half. So far the pistons have let go first.
At any rate they are a great rod for the money.
Thats not to say Eagle and Scat ect are not fine for a lot of people too, they are.
I have had some generic CAT rods with the 8740 bolts up and running for a long time.

  #31  
Old 08-16-2020, 02:57 AM
pastry_chef's Avatar
pastry_chef pastry_chef is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,300
Default

Over 1000 HP on pump gas with Molnar rods and crank. I don't think this guy cared to save much $, very nice components there. Peak HP was 7400 RPM.
https://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-...gas-build.html

  #32  
Old 08-16-2020, 08:12 AM
slowbird's Avatar
slowbird slowbird is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Montgomery, IL
Posts: 10,638
Default

Man i feel lucky, eagle rods and steel valves.
https://youtu.be/zRqZzkW-SSc

  #33  
Old 08-16-2020, 08:37 AM
firechicken's Avatar
firechicken firechicken is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 1,624
Default

Big and small end weights would be interesting to know. The Molnar rod beam appears visually that it would be heavier than the Eagle but is like 70g lighter overall. That's substantial.

  #34  
Old 08-16-2020, 08:48 AM
PAUL K's Avatar
PAUL K PAUL K is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sugar Grove IL USA
Posts: 6,283
Default

Over 1200 horsepower on pump gas. This guy wanted to save money so we used Eagle rods and Eagle crank... Seven seasons, one freshen up and thousands of miles.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...32994593525317

__________________
Go fast, see Elvis!
www.facebook.com/PaulKnippensMuscleMotors
  #35  
Old 08-16-2020, 09:03 AM
PAUL K's Avatar
PAUL K PAUL K is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sugar Grove IL USA
Posts: 6,283
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by firechicken View Post
Big and small end weights would be interesting to know. The Molnar rod beam appears visually that it would be heavier than the Eagle but is like 70g lighter overall. That's substantial.
Molnar puts the rod weights on their boxes, big and small end. I don't think splitting the weight up makes a ton of difference. At the end of the day it's all spinning on the crankshaft.

__________________
Go fast, see Elvis!
www.facebook.com/PaulKnippensMuscleMotors
  #36  
Old 08-16-2020, 11:07 AM
firechicken's Avatar
firechicken firechicken is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 1,624
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAUL K View Post
Molnar puts the rod weights on their boxes, big and small end. I don't think splitting the weight up makes a ton of difference. At the end of the day it's all spinning on the crankshaft.
Totally agree. Just curious where all the extra weight is on the Eagle rod.
I have Eagles in my engine fwiw

  #37  
Old 08-16-2020, 11:37 AM
Stan Weiss's Avatar
Stan Weiss Stan Weiss is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pastry_chef View Post
Over 1000 HP on pump gas with Molnar rods and crank. I don't think this guy cared to save much $, very nice components there. Peak HP was 7400 RPM.
https://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-...gas-build.html
One of the people who liked that post is "Wolfplace" That is Mike Lewis who is doing Dragncar's work. Mike is very knowledgeable.

Stan

PS - Mike check your email.

__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php
Pontiac Pump Gas List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm
Using PMD Block and Heads List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm
  #38  
Old 08-16-2020, 11:38 AM
Stan Weiss's Avatar
Stan Weiss Stan Weiss is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAUL K View Post
Molnar puts the rod weights on their boxes, big and small end. I don't think splitting the weight up makes a ton of difference. At the end of the day it's all spinning on the crankshaft.
If the small end weight is unknown the standard is to use 1/3 of the rod weight. A lighter small end weight will reduce the Reciprocating forces ATDC and BDDC a small amount.

Stan

__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php
Pontiac Pump Gas List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm
Using PMD Block and Heads List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm
  #39  
Old 08-16-2020, 12:59 PM
PAUL K's Avatar
PAUL K PAUL K is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sugar Grove IL USA
Posts: 6,283
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by firechicken View Post
Totally agree. Just curious where all the extra weight is on the Eagle rod.
I have Eagles in my engine fwiw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan Weiss View Post
If the small end weight is unknown the standard is to use 1/3 of the rod weight. A lighter small end weight will reduce the Reciprocating forces ATDC and BDDC a small amount.

Stan
Interesting Stan, I will list some rod weights tomorrow if no one beats me to it. I have several sets of Molnars on the shelf but I'm not sure if any are standard Pontiac dimension.

__________________
Go fast, see Elvis!
www.facebook.com/PaulKnippensMuscleMotors
  #40  
Old 08-16-2020, 05:33 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Humbolt County California
Posts: 8,284
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by firechicken View Post
Big and small end weights would be interesting to know. The Molnar rod beam appears visually that it would be heavier than the Eagle but is like 70g lighter overall. That's substantial.
The Molnar Power Adder 6.8s I have are 815.7 Total, Recip 256.3 and Rotating 559.4 grams.
I thought the 60+ grams I was saving in weight vs the Crowers would be a good thing considering its a PMD block.


Last edited by Dragncar; 08-16-2020 at 05:38 PM.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:51 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017