[64speed]

It’s probably something really stupid and minor that’s gonna make you laugh when you find it but this is precisely why I didn’t do a long distance build. I have a machine shop here that does a LOT of Pontiacs and if I have a problem I only have to drive 45 minutes to bitch. Carter1 who is asking about shipping in one of the other posts is using my engine builder. He’s 300 miles from here but I told him to drive it down and pick it up. Well worth the face to a name experience

[Va68goat]

64speed,
Finding a reputable builder is huge. There is one place near me in Northern Virginia that I know of that has a real good name. They don't do Pontiacs as much as others. http://www.candcmotorsports.com . I have to say...Paul has been damn good about this. We talk often and he feels bad about this whole situation. Honestly, who knows if a local builder would handle it as well as Paul. So far so good with him and at this point, I have no regrets. Things happen. As someone once told me when this all came to light... "The difference between a builder and a great builder is how they handle an issue".

[64speed]

I agree I have Paul doing some work for me in my build to with the cam and the oil pump but those are easy to ship. Royal pain in the ass to ship the whole engine though. I have no doubt Paul is doing you right, I would expect nothing less of his good name that’s why I trusted him to spec my cam and blueprint my oiling system.

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by dataway

On my bone stock engine it's close but not that close maybe 1/4" or 3/16".

I thought it may be closer than that? who knows. The answer to the issue will be interesting! I hope its soon, and not any major issue. I wonder if the windage tray is hitting somewhere? maybe it was a little "too close" somewhere?

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by grivera

How would this be possible on a factory block with factory replacement parts? Could H-beam rods affect clearance?

Rods would not affect clearance to the oil pump drive. Who knows? ; )

[NeighborsComplaint]

Assume oil pump pickup to pan clearance was checked?

[chiphead]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

I thought it may be closer than that? who knows. The answer to the issue will be interesting! I hope its soon, and not any major issue. I wonder if the windage tray is hitting somewhere? maybe it was a little "too close" somewhere?

I would think that if the crank were to hit the pump drive, the results would be catastrophic.

On my Scat crank build, it's really close between the rear counterweight and the hardened oil pump drive. It appears to be less than .100", but I'm not sure how to check it. Is there a safe minimum?

[NeighborsComplaint]

You painted the inside of the oil pan???? All that paint is going to come off and clog your oil pump pickup screen.

Witness marks from oil pump pickup rubbing on the bottom of the oil pan?

[Va68goat]

NeighborsComplaint,
Hahahaha. No, I didn't paint the bottom of the pan. ( I painted the flexplate) This picture was taken when we pulled the motor to address the windage tray. I had already changed the oil once prior to this picture. I don't think the oil had been changed after the dyno so it was suggested that I change the oil. Especially since the knocking noise was present. I can't tell if those are witness marks or not.

[gtofreek]

Some of you guys act like this is the first engine I have ever built. Just to be clear, I have built over 500 engines and well over 200 Pontiac engines. I check oil pump pickup to oil pan clearance as well as everything else. Somehow I couldn't hear the windage tray touching so I missed that. My mistake, but that doesn't mean I didn't check anything else. Keep in mind also that this is the first issue like this I have ever had with an engine build in 25 years of doing this. The only other issues I have had have all been from parts malfunctions.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Paul, I am only offering an observation. My experience is limited to a half dozen motors I have built and pales in comparison to your experience and caliber of work.

I do have an inquiring mind however and the oil pan is obviously painted inside and shows a spot where the paint appears rubbed away and looks suspect.

There are things that can cause a pickup to contact the pan after the fact like a dented sump that occurs during install or a tight original clearance with a 5/16” cork gasket that becomes an interference when a thinner pan gasket is substituted (like A BOP one piece) after the fact. The pulses within the crankcase could cause the interference to come and go in time with the nearest counterweight.

As the pan had been removed to add the windage tray spacers and the noise remains, there is a possibility the pump pickup is touching the pan, and the absence of paint in the area of the pickup strongly suggest it is worth a look if the new flexplate doesn’t resolve the issue.

[tom s]

The owner said he did not paint the oil pan?Tom

[JSPONT]

The pick up is not near the side there, and how would the pick up make a knocking noise?? It is one big unit when bolted together. It is not an oil pressure issue, that's why you make sure the pick up is off the pan, so it does not stop oil flow.

[dataway]

"I hear you knocking but you can't come in! "

At some point I usually give up and drive the heck out of it ... if it's an important noise, it will make the cause known before too long

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by chiphead

I would think that if the crank were to hit the pump drive, the results would be catastrophic.

On my Scat crank build, it's really close between the rear counterweight and the hardened oil pump drive. It appears to be less than .100", but I'm not sure how to check it. Is there a safe minimum?

"Hitting" was the wrong word, "Rubbing" may be more what I had in mind. Keep in mind this has engine has almost been disassembled since Paul put it together. I never did hear why the poly locks were adjusted at such different heights.

I have all the confidence in Paul. I'm not dissing him at all. No doubt he knows what he is doing. It just one of those things. I'm sure he wishes he was there to check this personally.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by JSPONT

The pick up is not near the side there, and how would the pick up make a knocking noise?? It is one big unit when bolted together. It is not an oil pressure issue, that's why you make sure the pick up is off the pan, so it does not stop oil flow.

Oil pump pickup is located exactly where the bright spot in the pan is. The pickup is installed as 2 pieces with the pickup adjustable for height from the floor of the sump by rotating the pickup tube..

If pressed only, it can drift lower to the pan. If tack welded or bracket and tacked and is not checked afterwards, the pickup can wind up too low and an edge could touch the pan.

Any vibration is dampened by the oil in the sump and the sound of the pickup vibrating against the pan can make a scuffing sound. In cadence with nearest crank counterweight.

[gtofreek]

There is no shiny spot in the pan. That is light reflecting off the oil. Pickup has 1/4" clearance. It is welded in place. Tig welded. It cannot drop down because the lid on the pump would prevent it if it wasn't welded. There is no paint in the pan either. It's been bead blasted.

[surfsama]

Sorry if this was already covered but after watching the video it seems like the knocking taps are slower than the crankshaft rotational speed.

[JSPONT]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

Oil pump pickup is located exactly where the bright spot in the pan is. The pickup is installed as 2 pieces with the pickup adjustable for height from the floor of the sump by rotating the pickup tube..

If pressed only, it can drift lower to the pan. If tack welded or bracket and tacked and is not checked afterwards, the pickup can wind up too low and an edge could touch the pan.

Any vibration is dampened by the oil in the sump and the sound of the pickup vibrating against the pan can make a scuffing sound. In cadence with nearest crank counterweight.

I don't know one builder that does not weld the oil pick up, if you don't better start. It would not knock like the sound in that video.
It is not that.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by surfsama

Sorry if this was already covered but after watching the video it seems like the knocking taps are slower than the crankshaft rotational speed.

I would tend to agree with that. Does this engine have a mechanical fuel pump? If it does, take it off and run the engine for 30 seconds or so until the carb runs out of gas and listen for the knock. Seems the valve train has already been accounted for. If it doesn't have a mechanical pump, I am out of ideas. It was likely run on the Dyno with an electric pump only.