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ponyakr · 09:38 PM

In recent years, the only '71 Bird Stocker I can think of was raced by Ryan Schloe. It ran a D-port 455, with #66 heads.

There have been at least two '72 Birds running Stock. The most famous, of course , has been raced by Brad Burton, with which he's won numerous races & 2 nat championships.

Those cars look to be correct. This 3rd '72 has the correct '72 grills, a T/A hood & shaker scoop, and T/A air extractors. But, it has no front spoiler or wheel flares. Back in '75, in div 4, that car would not have been allowed to run. But, this car has run lots of big races like this. So, that just shows that the body of cars does not have to be as correct as they use to.

This is in no way a put down of anybody. And I'm not gonna be a whistle blower, to NHRA. Just making some casual observations of things that are very obvious, to anyone who knows much about these cars. I've already mentioned cars that had the wrong fenders, and one car has no front turn signals. But, all these cars have passed tech many times, at many big races. So, that seems to make all these things quite legal, nowadays.

ponyakr · 10:56 PM

'73 was a very eventful year for Pontiac. Some good & some bad. To me, the bad was the complete body style change for the A-body. That's all I'll say about that, because some here love the '73 A-body.

The big deal was the release of the SD455 engine. And, there were a few Pontiac racers that immediately got one & put it on the track. One of these guys was John Clegg. He bought one, took it to Indy, & won his D/S class !

I may have already posted this. But it needs to go right here, again.

https://www.facebook.com/NHRA/videos/2196660753953292/

I suppose one of the most famous SD455 Stockers was the Herslow & Morlock "Celluloid Hero" E/SA record holder, which made the cover of SS&DI mag.

ponyakr · 01:17 AM

Of course, not all '73 Bird Stockers ran the SD455. They could run a 400 or the D-port 455.

In recent years, the only 2 Stockers, running as '73 models, that I can think of, is the car raced by Michael Brand, & the yellow car that was raced by Adam Davis. The yellow car has changed hands.

Both cars have run strong. Michael won his class at Indy, in 2015. Adam was RU in his class. Michael ran 1.010 under. Adam ran 1.048 under. 2 pretty strong Birds.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2015#indextop

For the 2019 season, as many here know, Michael switched his Bird over to SD455 power. Did a quick check. A 10.77 was the quickest time I saw. The car wasn't as far under as it was with the D-port engine. But, maybe it went quicker than that. Anybody know it's best ET, with the SD455 ?

Here's a re-post of a link to the video of a pass, with the SD455 in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO-04aqNm5I

Michael ran the car as a Formula, which as most here know, could use a T/A hood & shaker, without any spoilers or wheel flares. So, I assume that the only body changes he had to make was to change out the hoods & install the shaker.

ponyakr · 01-31-2020, 06:42 AM

Before we leave '73, I wanna mention this. I've already posted that the '73-'77 A-body is not my favorite Pontiac body style. But, that has not kept Pontiac guys from racin 'em, in both Stock & SS.

Right now, the earliest '73 A-body Stocker I know of was raced by Mick Leiferman. Seems I remember somebody mentioning that he may have ran an SD455 in it. And, as we've discussed, NHRA allows the SD455 in a '73 GTO. If it did run an SD455, it was indeed a rare piece of Pontiac racing history.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2080

But I can't verify that, one way or the other. In the only pic I have of the car, I can't make out the class designation, on the side. I can make out an SA. So, that means it was an auto trans Stocker. Can anybody tell the exact class, from the pic below ?

Anyhow, he could have run a 400, a D-port 455, or an SD455. If I have ever seen a pic of another '73 GTO Stocker, I am not aware of it. But, there probably were a few, in earlier years. If anybody has pics of any, please post 'em.

As mentioned, Mick held a nat record for 5 years running, & was RU at Indy 3 times straight. So, that would make us think that the '73 GTO probably ran pretty good, too. But I have no record of any performance results from the car.

ponyakr · 10:09 AM

Now for '74 Birds. There have been lots of '74 Birds in Stock & SS. That '74 400 engine seems to be very popular with quite a few class racers.

The Class Racer Info site shows it to have a 275 NHRA hp factor, for all Stockers. And, it can be run in Formys, T/A's, and all A-bodies, including wagons.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...1&MAKE=Pontiac

The D-port 455 & SD455 can also be run in the Formy & T/A.

In recent years, the only three '74 bird Stockers I remember being in competition, was the Lindy Lindholm Formy, that was stolen, a Texas T/A, driven by Hunter Pierdolla, and the Bob Mulry Formy. Bob's car was probably the quickest Pontiac Stocker ever, against it's index, going more than 1.5 sec under, going more than a sec under MANY times, & qualifying #1 at lots or races. I'll use the nest post for more on Bob's car.

Lindy's car ran lots of West coast races. Usually qualified well.

Hunter Pierdolla ran his Bird in nat events in Houston & Dallas a few times. Also ran some other div 4 races. A pic of the car was posted on the John Clegg Mission Garage site. It also has Mission Garage on the side of it. I read that Hunter's Dad, Forest, built the car.

It runs in H/SA. So, from my calculations, it has the D-port 455 engine, with an NHRA 306hp factor. A quick search found a best ET of 11.159, which was .991 under the index. That reminds me of just how quick Stockers are now. H-O set the nat rec, with a '74 SD455 car, in SS/KA, at 11.31. This car went quicker than that, in Stock !

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=309188

The older pic of the engine, shows it with SD 455 on the shaker scoop. So, I suppose it had the SD455, at that time. But, using an online calculator, the lowest class I can see that it could run, with the SD455, would be G/SA. The hp factor for stock auto is 335hp. The NHRA weight for the T/A is 3668lbs. So, that comes out to just under 11lbs/hp.

3668 lbs divided by 335hp = 10.949..........

That means the car is a natural F/SA. But since you can add weight to make the next lower class, with just a small amount added, the car could run G/SA, @ 11lbs/hp. If ya'll see something I'm missing that would allow a '74 SD455 T/A to run H/SA, please post that info.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...3&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2093

http://www.classracerinfo.com/NHRA_Classes.aspx

ponyakr · 01-31-2020, 11:36 AM

OK, now for the Bob Mulry '74 Formy. I just recently learned about this car. It was awesome !

It seems that Bob Mulry & Bob Aceves teamed up for this car. Bob Aceves has also run a real quick '68 Bird Stocker.

I'll post a few of the big qualifying numbers. I'll also post pics of 3 nat records the car set, in J/SA, K/SA, & L/SA. For the L/SA record, they had to swap out the Formy body parts, for T/A parts, because the NHRA weight for the T/A is heavier.

#1 @ - 1.579

ponyakr · 01-31-2020, 10:41 PM

Here is a partial quote from a post Skip Fix made on the SS thread.

"...John Schloe...has a 69 Bird in stock that was running RAIV heads(and in the 10s) but for the past 20 years D ports still in the 10s. "

So, let's take a look at some race results & see what we can find. John lives on the West coast. He entered the Winter Nats many times. The DRC files begin with 1998. So, we'll look at the 1998 Winter Nats 1st.

He was entered, but at that time just barely ran under his index.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1998#indextop

The 1st Winter Nats(hereafter called WN) where he broke into the 10's, was in 2002, with a 10.94.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop

In 2003, he turned a 10.77, which was more than a sec under the D/SA index.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

In 2007, he turned a 10.69, but it was in C/SA.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop

In '08, he lowered it to a 10.62, in C/SA. .

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop

In '10, he was 10.56, in D/SA.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2010#indextop

In '11, 10.53 in C/SA

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2011#indextop

In '13, 10.57 in D/SA

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2013#indextop

In '14, 10.54 in D/SA

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2014#indextop

In '17, 10.50 in C/SA.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2017#indextop

He did get into the 10.40's, in '18, with a 10.49 in C/SA, at this Fontana Stock/SS combo race.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=349366

This is the last event for which DRC has him listed, in a name search. It's a 2018 div 7 race. He went 10.51 in C/SA.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=351146

Here's the link to a video of one of his 10 sec runs, which was posted here several years back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7lK...=youtu.be&hd=1

Here's a race from last season where he ran a 10.519.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r=100#indextop

At this National Open race, he ran a 10.493. Assume his lowest ET is somewhere in the 10.40's. Anybody know for sure ?

https://www.facebook.com/nhrad7/phot...type=3&theater

ponyakr · 12:09 AM

Back to '73's, I found a another pic of Mick Leiferman's '73 GTO. It's black in this pic. Don't know if this was the color when he bought it, or he painted it that color, later.

And, to add to the '74 Stocker info, I noticed that Jack Matyas was on a 1998 Q-list, with a '74 Pontiac. Assume that would be the A-body '74 named "Chieftain".

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1998#indextop

This '04 list shows Jack with a '74 Ventura. Don't know exactly which years he had which cars. So, it's possible that he was driving the GTO at both races, since a '74 Pontiac could be several different body styles. I now see that the A-body had #1546. The car he ran at both these races was number #1547. So, that seems to indicate that he was driving the GTO at both races.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=1653

ponyakr · 02-01-2020, 12:54 AM

Since I brought up a '74 GTO, this is a good time to begin a discussion about them. Now, I'm gonna need a lot of help here. I have pics of one which held some record for several years.

I'm sure there have been lots of these cars raced, since they came out. But I only have pics of a few. And, I don't have any race results for most of these, since DRC files seem to only go back as far as 1998.

By the way, NHRA allows the reg Ventura to also run the same 350 engine, but without the shaker scoop. The earliest mention of these cars on the strip, that I have found, is when Al Vanis, driving a reg Ventura, won Stock, at the '74 US Nats.

There is a pic, which shows Al in the near lane, & Rock Running's '74 GTO in the far lane. But that was not the final round. However, there IS a pic of Rock, with the O/S class trophy. So, I suppose, at that race, Rock won his class, but Al won the race.

Since I can only post 5 pics per post, I'll begin with the Duttweiller car. It shows to have held an NHRA record from '91 thru '95. Anybody have info on this car, such as who had it next ?

ponyakr · 02-01-2020, 01:12 AM

OK, now back to the '74 US Nats. Al Vanis, in a flat hood Ventura, running O/SA, won the race !

Rock Running was there & apparently won the O/S class trophy.

ponyakr · 02-01-2020, 01:43 AM

Apparently, Jack Matyas began with a flat-hood Vent, then many years later, added the GTO parts.

Looks like he did quite well with the car, and set a nat record.

ponyakr · 02-01-2020, 02:09 AM

The next 2 cars I knew nothing about 'til I recently found the pics, online. So, if anybody has any info on any of these cars, please post it.

This one had Shekell Bros on the side. Got a Wally at Indy. Was it for class, or a win ?

ponyakr · 02-01-2020, 02:24 AM

This one was named Git-Go.

It has 3 different looks, 2 different sponsor names & 2 different permanent numbers. Looks like the 1st sponsor was a Pontiac dealer in N.Y. Anybody no anything about this car ?

ponyakr · 02-01-2020, 03:08 AM

Before we leave '74's, I'll mention 2 that are still racing. One is a Lemans wagon, raced by Gary Riley. Many here know that he won an All-Pontiac final, at the Mile-High Nats.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop

Another is the Lemans raced by Tommy Brown. It has been among the top Pontiac qualifiers at quite a few races.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...UMMIT#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

ponyakr · 02-01-2020, 04:03 AM

When it comes to '75 model Stockers, I always think of Ryan Warter, up in the Great Northwest. He's done good with his '75 Formy.

Recently won his first nat event, at the 2018 Northwest Nats. It was another All-Pontiac final, against Randi Lyn Shipp.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...UMMIT#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2016#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...UMMIT#indextop

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...71&postcount=2

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...75&postcount=3

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...UMMIT#indextop

Skip Fix · 02-01-2020, 10:33 AM

John ran the RAIV head combination late 80s early 90s before hurting a head and switched to the D port motor. I think a few clips in Pete McCarthy's book. Back then you had to run stock rods also. Used to run Tri City Launcher springs back in the day also pre Caltracs like lots of stockers did. He gave me the contact for Greg for the ones I've had on the 78 TA since the early 90s.

RAIV motor had a 274/274@ 0.050 cam in it!

ponyakr · 02-01-2020, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

John ran the RAIV head combination late 80s early 90s before hurting a head and switched to the D port motor. I think a few clips in Pete McCarthy's book. Back then you had to run stock rods also. Used to run Tri City Launcher springs back in the day also pre Caltracs like lots of stockers did. He gave me the contact for Greg for the ones I've had on the 78 TA since the early 90s.

RAIV motor had a 274/274@ 0.050 cam in it!

Yeah, that's a nasty cam.

John has done good with the '69 with D-port heads, especially considering that NHRA puts more hp on the '69 than the '68.

If the Class Racer Info is correct, the '69 got 345hp, as of 2014. Since John had the quickest '69, I assume his car is the one responsible for the hit. But, I don't know what it was before 2014. Anybody here know ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...9&MAKE=Pontiac

Skip Fix · 02-01-2020, 11:27 AM

I tried to fit a copy of it in my RAIV with TRWs and there was too little V-P for me. John had factory pistons with possibly different reliefs and said he used some offset dowels to exactly line up the head/valves in them. I thik at that time NHRA hot the RAIV hard is part of the switch to the D port. I think over the past 10 years they may have backed off a little and why the Burtons have had some success with a RAIV in their 70.

ponyakr · 12:00 PM

I completely forgot a couple of cars. I think they're both either '74 or '75 Grand Ams.

One is raced by Don Elgin, up in the Northwest.

The other was raced by Don Turk, for quite a while. He sold it a while back. Logan Galbraith drives it now. He's won a couple of races with it.

Don did good with it, & made the Indy 128 car field.

Last year, Logan was #77 @ - 1.037, with an 11.963.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop

In 2015, Don was .903 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2015#indextop

ponyakr · 02-02-2020, 01:26 AM

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