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#1
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Worth milling my heads?
So some of the info I'll give is known but alot is assumed.
The block is a .060 over 455 with forged rods and -15cc dished icon pistons. The cam is a melling spc-8 cam (041) and I have Rhoades lifters. The heads are 6x-4 heads with 1.5 roller tip rockers. I'm fairly certain the deck height is stock and I don't believe the heads have been milled. If I pull the heads I will check these things. But assuming a .016 piston to deck height and 94cc for the heads with a .039 gasket. The basic calculators put me right around 8.9:1 compression. If I were to pull the heads and mill them to say 84cc which would put me around 9.6 unless the block happens to be zero decked then I would be closer to 9.9 but with good quench. And I'd clearance them for 1.65 full roller rockers. What could I expect for a power gain? Obviously that's alot of assumed specs but If those were the numbers would the gain be worth the time and money? And how much of the gain be from the rockers and how much from the compression? Is it worth just doing one? |
#2
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This chart may help you and if it where not for the fact that your running Rhoads lifters I would say go for, but I will leave it up to you and others who will chime in.
This cart is percent of power increase.
__________________
Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
#3
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Is it worth the work, depends how much the performance difference means to you. You'll need to mill the manifold or manifold side of the heads. To do the job right you should leave a step at the bottom of the intake side of the head (assuming you choose to mill the manifold side if the head which is usually the better way) for the valley pan to seal and you might need shorter pushrods. |
The Following User Says Thank You to PAUL K For This Useful Post: | ||
#4
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Heads are angle milled. You then need to mill the intake side to get the angle back so it seals properly. IF you have manifolds, expect them to be touching the motor mounts.
Why even mention a cam when you mention 1.65 rockers? They change the cam specs. Got the springs and guides for that lift? Your fuel requirements will sure change as you chase a "static" compression number.
__________________
"The Future Belongs to those who are STILL Willing to get their Hands Dirty" .. my Grandfather |
#5
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If the modifications require a "de-tune" for pump gas....
Could end up with a TQ/HP loss. Been there done that and don't like it Clay |
#6
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#7
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#8
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Most of what I read has said the 041 cam can be run on 91 octane up to 10:1 compression with good tuning. I'm close to sea level and I'm running a cliff ruggles qjet and have an AFR gauge installed. I'm under the assumption I wouldn't have to de-tune. But I'd take advice on the matter from anyone if my assumption is wrong. I'm definitely not looking to have detonation issues.
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#9
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You shouldn't be angle milling so you don't need to worry about alignment issues and correcting bolt hole angles.... No need to over complicate things. You shouldn't have any detonation issues with 9.9 and an 041. |
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to PAUL K For This Useful Post: | ||
#10
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Many years ago, the 428 had 8.9 compression, magnum 292H hyd-flat cam and 225 cfm ported heads. So, like you, a cam too big for the compression, yet it ran a best of 12.31 in the GTO.
With your Rhodes lifters you will be fine for street driving with the lower compression. Like what was asked before, do you' need' the extra power? I think if you do the work of milling the heads and 1.65 rockers, then check for rocker stud length and pushrod length, you may have to purchase both, plus new springs. I feel it is not worth doing all that with stock heads. If you need the extra power, also port the heads. As for the clearance in the heads for 1.65 rockers, you may need to remove material the whole length of the guide hole, not just the top portion. Actually, when I sell the GTO I will put those lower comp heads back on with the RA4 cam, Rhodes lifters and 1.5 rockers. I think it run good enough for the next person. |
#11
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SPC-8 has less advertised duration and less over-lap than a 041.
I suspect a .006" (instead of .004") measurement would put The SPC-8, advertised and overlap, closer to a 744. Faster ramps than a 041. If you look at ICL @ ,004" adverised and ICL @ .050".. May even be some voodoo crap going on. With HFT or SFT cams (make that any cam).. The same @ .050" numbers isn't enuff for me. SPC-8 isn't a copy it's a replacement. Like a toned down more street friendly version of an 041. Clay |
#12
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Do cometics require any particular finish on deck and head surfaces for proper seal?
__________________
Will Rivera '69 Firebird 400/461, 290+ E D-Ports, HR 230/236, 4l80E, 8.5 Rear, 3.55 gears '64 LeMans 400/461, #16 Heads, HR 230/236, TKO600, 9inch Rear, 3.89 gears '69 LeMans Vert, 350, #47 heads: Non-running project |
#13
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#14
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They say they do. We have had zero issues and have run them on pretty coarse finishes including factory machined surfaces when using iron on iron.
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The Following User Says Thank You to PAUL K For This Useful Post: | ||
#15
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The reason why the SPC-8 looks smaller on paper is Pontiac engineering originally rated cams different than Melling. Melling uses a SAE rating which is .006” lift out at the valve, rocker arm ratio effects those. From what I remember HO racing published that the Pontiac ratings were originally .002” open to .008-.009” in the closing. Oldsmobile supposedly rated their cams a 0” lift, OEMs ratings from the day were all over the place. The lasted SPC-8 that I checked was 3 years ago measured 291 intake and 302 on the exhaust, both measured @.006” tappet, one supplier rates them at 292 and 303 at .006” tappet, pretty close to what I measured. It has gentle ramps like you would expect to see from the 60s and 70s cams.
I am on the same page as Paul for compression using a spec-8. We have tried running it with just under 9 compression and were pretty disappointed. With low compression it’s street manors are like a 12 second cam and your doing good to get it into the 13s. But, it will run on any dishwater gas you put in it, and if you like the fenders to shake a little at stop lights, it does that well. Rhoads help street manors, we didn’t have Rhoads on the low compression 455 we did. I didn’t feel like it ever lived to it’s potential compared to when it has another point of compression. Last edited by Jay S; 10-23-2021 at 09:25 PM. |
#16
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Why did you start out with dished pistons? Flat tops would be my choice.
GT |
#17
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Well like I said before, I've made alot of mistakes learning as I go. When I had the engine built I was scarred of compression and understood almost nothing about what all goes into detention sensitivity. If I had it to do again I would have done that and alot of other things different. But here I am.
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#18
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if the 6x heads have oem valves I would go aluminum 72 cc heads with the dish pistons for the best bang for the buck. You will have a chunk in the 6xs if starting over with all hardware
__________________
1963 Cat SD Clone (old school) streeter 1964 GTO post coupe, tripower, 4speed (build) 1965 GTO 389 tripower, 4 speed, driver 1966 GTO dragcar 1966 GTO Ragtop 1969 Tempest ET clone street/strip 1969 GTO Judge RA lll, auto 1969 GTO limelight Conv. 4speed go and show (sold) 1970 GP SSJ 1970 GTO barn find..TLB…390 horse?….yeh, 390 1972 GTO 455 HO, 4 speed, (build) 1973 Grand Safari wagon, 700hp stoplight sleeper 525ci DCI & 609ci LM V head builds Last edited by J.C.you; 10-26-2021 at 11:02 AM. |
#19
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I'd love to have aluminum heads. But the quote I got for milling and clearancing the pushrod holes was $300. Out of the box kre 74cc heads are $2500. Not saying it's not worth the money, if I was tripping over bags of it that's what I would do. |
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