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Old 09-29-2019, 09:23 AM
Pepper Judge Pepper Judge is offline
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Default 1970 GTO Judge WT7 on eBay

1970 GTO Judge WT7 on eBay for sale at Specialty Sales Classics in California and for $87,990.00 (doesn't hurt if you say it fast) you could be the fourth owner (fifth if SSC put it in their name).

Red interior on the Polar white exterior with black spoiler (appears to be a semi glossy repaint) and chin strap; black, red and yellow stripes.

VIN 242370R124727 on this Arlington car built November 1969 with Ram Air III, M20 4-speed, PS, PB posi and a hood tach. Factory drivetrain rebuilt during the frame off restoration.

The ad states PHS documented with a build sheet but they are not shown.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Pontia...4AAOSw4hJdi0lw
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  #2  
Old 09-29-2019, 09:52 AM
orejudge orejudge is offline
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https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...HARDTOP-116000

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Old 09-29-2019, 09:56 AM
orejudge orejudge is offline
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car has been around the block

https://www.classic.com/a/mecum-kiss...judge-OpzaXEW/

https://www.classic.com/a/barrett-ja...r-iii-nlZa8Op/

  #4  
Old 09-29-2019, 11:17 AM
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It would be nice to see the build sheet to see if it is a true WT7?
(is a Judge)



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  #5  
Old 10-06-2019, 02:13 PM
Pepper Judge Pepper Judge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnta1 View Post
It would be nice to see the build sheet to see if it is a true WT7?
(is a Judge)


Tried the Mecum, BJ sites and a plain google search; one site has 97 photos but no build sheet to be had.

Same VIN ending 124727 but the stripes and Judge decals switched from blue to the correct black.

Sold in 2015 for just over 50 K

  #6  
Old 12-04-2019, 03:49 PM
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CarlBraun CarlBraun is offline
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Default WT7 Information

Hello PY members

I'm new to this site and hope to be able to contribute when I can.

For those of you that are interested in the rare WT7 option I have some things I think I can add.

First, if you haven't seen Patrick Smith's article on the WT7 Judges its mandatory reading. Titled .Ghost Cars: Pontiac GTO Judge WT7 1970-1971 its the most complete article I've read on this rare option for 70 and 71 Judges. View it here...

http://phscollectorcarworld.blogspot...-wt7-1970.html

When you read the article you can see that Patrick implies that the WT7 option was found on the build sheet of the special cars with most of them coming from the Arlington TX assembly plant or Oshawa ONT Canada plant.

The car that you reference at the beginning of this thread; the Polar White/Red Interior Ram Air III Judge in California has an ad that details the fact that the build sheet contains the WT7 (605) option code. I've attempted to contact those folks to inquire about the car but they pick up the phone and hang up on me. This has happened several times. Maybe they're getting tired of the calls from others seeking the same info??? I've never spoken with anyone yet about the car. That car is built in Arlington TX.

I have no interest in purchasing the car but I did want to ask them to send me a picture of the trim tag. Even though some would agree that the ONLY way to tell if you have a real WT7 car is to view the original build sheet, I would question that logic.

Patrick's article states... A build sheet will identify a WT7 but it varies from plant to plant. Pontiac assembly plant sort of hid the WT7 code in box 60. Box 60 normally would have a 1 in it for RPO 601 Ram Air. The WT7 code is labeled 604 so to save space (they) added both codes in the same box, Pontiac took a page from Chrysler's build sheet methodology and combined the two by addition. 605 became WT7 with Ram Air. (601+ 604.)


That said, I have a 1970 Polar White Ram Air IV Judge with a black wing and black scoops that was built in Arlington TX. The TRIM TAG reads 06A for the build date (first week of June) and then a factory stamp of 605 next to it indicating the WT7 option.

I'm wondering if any other WT7 owners you may know have this same code on the trim tag. Is it an Arlington TX car? This is the reason I was trying to get hold of the goobers with the 1970 WT7 in Fairfield, CA. Maybe Arlington was the only assembly plant to put the rare code on the trim tag???

Comments?

Carl

  #7  
Old 12-04-2019, 04:26 PM
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Welcome, Carl!


Thanks for the link.
I'll look at some pics of cowl tags for your question.



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  #8  
Old 12-04-2019, 05:38 PM
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Just noticed Carl, this may be in the wrong group.


Make a post in the Judge section with your info.



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"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates
  #9  
Old 12-04-2019, 09:17 PM
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Held for Ransom Held for Ransom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlBraun View Post
Hello PY members

I'm new to this site and hope to be able to contribute when I can.

That said, I have a 1970 Polar White Ram Air IV Judge with a black wing and black scoops that was built in Arlington TX. The TRIM TAG reads 06A for the build date (first week of June) and then a factory stamp of 605 next to it indicating the WT7 option.

I'm wondering if any other WT7 owners you may know have this same code on the trim tag. Is it an Arlington TX car? This is the reason I was trying to get hold of the goobers with the 1970 WT7 in Fairfield, CA. Maybe Arlington was the only assembly plant to put the rare code on the trim tag???

Comments?

Carl
In my opinion, the "code" you are seeing is actually the car's line number for that day's production [June 1st (Monday) to June 5th (Friday)].

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Old 12-04-2019, 11:37 PM
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CarlBraun CarlBraun is offline
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Ransom

i have searched the web to find examples of 1970 or other tags with the "line number" that you are referring to and the closest tag I can find is a 68 GTO tag from the same Arlington assembly plant. it shows a date of 03A 206. here is the link...https://www.ebay.com/i/351999725283?...26pg%3D2386202

If your theory is correct the 206 doesn't jive with your date code for month/day.

The only other theory would be that the 206 number is either a trim code or the sequential number built that MONTH...or the 206th car built that month.


Last edited by CarlBraun; 12-04-2019 at 11:44 PM.
  #11  
Old 12-05-2019, 12:46 AM
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http://www.forums.maxperformanceinc....d.php?t=741129

An Arlington build sheet is posted in this thread. If you look in the upper left corner, you'll see an 07-0483. I believe it stood for either the 7th day of the month or production day 07 (it could be the first 07 or 2nd 07 or 3rd 07, going from 01-99, repeat) then the 0483 vehicle down the line that day.

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  #12  
Old 12-05-2019, 10:47 AM
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Ransom

thanks for the extra detective work!

I have been able to review several other BT (Arlington tags) and agree with your assessment that the number after the date code is some sort of production number for that month or fiscal year. That said, i think we can both agree that the '605' number after the build date is quite the coincidence for this car.

thanks again and i will continue to search for past owners of the vehicle in hopes of getting more data on the WT7 option and if, indeed, it came with this car.

The car does have a black wing and scoops now

thanks again

Carl

  #13  
Old 12-06-2019, 02:10 AM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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We have not documented any (zero) WT7 cars from Arlington , so far .
Only PMD and Oshawa plants for 1970 , think its 4 or 5 cars now. [1970]
2 are RamIV 4spd, the others are RamIII 4spd.
Been hunting them for over 10 years.

Have you searched your car for the buildsheet ?

Believe its 3 cars we have documented for 1971 - all PMD.
2 were shipped to Canada

The article you posted was mostly gleened from our research here on PY, along with data from Fred Simmonds. Some of Fred's data on WT7 appears to have been incomplete or misinterpreted when he transcripted.

Arlington Only - has become a myth

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Old 12-06-2019, 05:48 PM
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BVZ

Thanks for the info and details.

The car arrives at my place next Thursday or Friday...when its supposed to be a high of -4F here. I'm doubtful I will be able to find any build sheet as the car was restored in 2001 and it has a new fuel tank on it. My only hope is to find something under the back seat.

Can you comment on exactly where on the car the build sheet has turned up? Preferably for Arlington built cars? Under the back seat? On top of the tank? Please advise. Thanks

Carl

  #15  
Old 12-06-2019, 05:59 PM
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Here is the car I purchased...my plans include installing the yellow/red/black stripes and decals, installing correct chrome side mirrors and painting the hood tach white...for starters

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  #16  
Old 12-07-2019, 11:53 AM
Pepper Judge Pepper Judge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlBraun View Post
Here is the car I purchased...my plans include installing the yellow/red/black stripes and decals, installing correct chrome side mirrors and painting the hood tach white...for starters
Welcome Carl!

Always time to make the car yours and "correct" any issues you see. Looks sharp as is.



Some more pictures and you can hear it run at:

https://www.gtautolounge.com/vehicle...403389eb816fa9

Good luck with your WT7 research.
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  #17  
Old 12-07-2019, 11:59 AM
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Held for Ransom Held for Ransom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin View Post
Only PMD and Oshawa plants for 1970 , think its 4 or 5 cars now. [1970]
2 are RamIV 4spd, the others are RamIII 4spd.
Been hunting them for over 10 years.

Have you searched your car for the buildsheet ?
http://www.forums.maxperformanceinc....d.php?t=541320

Didn't you get the docs on the Baltimore car?

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  #18  
Old 12-07-2019, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlBraun View Post
Can you comment on exactly where on the car the build sheet has turned up? Preferably for Arlington built cars? Under the back seat? On top of the tank? Please advise. Thanks

Carl
Usually under the carpeting, near or on the trans. tunnel.

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  #19  
Old 12-07-2019, 12:15 PM
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CarlBraun CarlBraun is offline
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Default Motor shot...

Ransom

please take a look at my most recent post under the Judge tech forum where I have posted a pic of the WT motor that's currently in my Judge. I believe some parts of the original assembly were kept when the motor was replaced. Look at the photo I attached and let me know if you think the aluminum RA IV intake and crossover are on the engine. thanks

Carl

  #20  
Old 12-07-2019, 08:10 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Held for Ransom View Post
http://www.forums.maxperformanceinc....d.php?t=541320

Didn't you get the docs on the Baltimore car?
N O

The previous owner never followed up while it was for sale on Charlotte craigslist.

Don never came through, as usual . Said he had picture of Bsheet on his phone.

The new owner who joined PY - never came through either.
Probably shouldn't include it at all.

In my head i was thinking it was a PMD Plant car when i posted above.

1 PMD Ram4 4spd
1 Baltimore Ram4 4spd
2 Oshawa Ram3 4spd

plus another Oshawa Ram3 4spd that sold on eBay in 05 or 06 before i was keeping tabs and saving files on them.

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