[cortcomp]

I bid on this one today, but with a 10% buyers premium and 6.75% sales tax, it got up to 34K which is 40K after fees and i let it move on. For a minute i was in a t 25k and there was no action, i thought for a second no one else wanted that particular car (AC parts missing, automatic, not factory color.)

Bummed but oh well, for 40k you can get a HELL of a better goat than that.

https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail.cfm...=FL0115-201727

[red1975pacer]

for 40 grand I don't think you can that much better

[cortcomp]

Really? You think walking around with 40K cash you can't do better than a non-numbers matching, non-factory colored missing about 1000-1500 in parts car? Sure it's ram air (although i could care less about that), but it's added not original. Of course no chassis pictures, if it's as detailed underneath as the engine bay i'd tend to agree.

40K is starting to get into judge territory. You must have a HELL of a nice non-judge to be getting there, IMHO. (of course that's from what i've been watching cars sell for for half a year, not what ppl are asking.)

[red1975pacer]

your talking auction cars that are always 'pumped'. Good GTO's aint getting any cheaper. All HI-Po Pontiacs are going up. Todays, lets say 19k Trans Am's will be 25k in the near future. just wait and see.

[cortcomp]

It's true that auction cars always seem to grab a premium.

I'm not 100% collector cars are going to go up and up in the long term (i mean, excluding your special editions like judges, winged cars, smokey and the bandit trans ams, etc.)

I'm 33, i expect to be in the hobby awhile. however, guys that are 50+? When i'm that age, there will be a FLOOD of all types of collector cars on the market as kids of those people that pass are selling their cars.

There will be more cars for sale, and less buyers as the percentage of those in their peak earning years to buy them, as the percentage of people in this hobby in that age bracket is less. I think the older classics will suffer first in price hits (packards and the like), then hot rods and 50's cars, then finally the muscle cars.

I predict, in maybe 20-25 years, collector car prices have a good change of tanking. In the next 5-10-15 years though? Barring any crazy economic crisis, yes i think they'll keep climbing somewhat. However, i don't think we'll ever see GTOs that are going for, say, 30 today hit 60+.

Also, it's getting easier to repair these cars correctly since the aftermarket for them is amazing. Between PY and inline tube and the like, you can pull off a damn good restoration in your garage. Without spending tons of money on refurbing older parts or labor to a resto shop, a guy in his garage with talent and patience can actually come out ahead, even at today's sale prices.

Do i expect someone to give me their nice appraised for 40 gto for 30k? Of course not. I just suspect that people see what cars are listed for on ebay and the car dealer sites (volo, streetside, etc) and assume that's what theirs is worth, without doing a detail comparison, and also not noticing that those cars have been for sale for a year and haven't moved.

I talked back and forth with this guy. 40k is steep asking for a standard goat in my opinion, however, i think this one is nearly worth that price:

http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/cto/4805313000.html

I'd also like to note that while restomods and the like (or patina/work/bagged trucks in the truck crowd) are popular and seem to fetch good prices, they don't seem to catch the highest dollar figures that "correct" and detailed restorations do.

[Ram4king]

I think you have alot to learn about buying a got if you think that piece of s@#t is worth nearly 40k. I wouldn't give 20 for it. Wrong rad support,shroud from a 68 gto...Repop door panels,no emblem,broke shifter,Wrong cheesy steering wheel.Did Stevie Wonder out the stripes on???? My God what a horrible abortion. Look at the way the taillamp fits to the bumper.

[cortcomp]

I can see it's not perfect, but not 20k? over-exaggeration aside, i've seen what goes for under 20, this car would be a gift for that. Under 30 is a TON of decent cars but with 70's motors swapped in. I had a health low compression 455 in my last car, it was fun.

This time around i want an accurate enough high compression motor to compare driving with.

I felt, personally, i'd be a player around 30-34 for it if things were a little more perfect AND if the underside was at least as decent as the engine bay, and if the seller was interested in dropping.

It's still numbers matching, according to the seller never rusted/rotted/repaired, etc. Factory AC is intact and working. As i've lamented, compressors ain't cheap any more, neither are brackets and hardware. It's a color i like, hideaways in good working order. Dash not cut up. Has speaker kick panels but those are changeable cheap and quick enough. interior is clean and not discolored or ripped etc.


Everyone has things that matter to them, i'll address the ones you listed:

Wrong rad support: easily changed or left for now

shroud from a 68 gto: same

Repop door panels: fine with me. GM wasn't the quality gods we wish they were, and after 50 years i don't think we're finding NOS door panels. Restoring them makes them still not original

no emblem: easily fixed
broke shifter: I didn't look that close as i wasn't really a player for the car, but ok sure.
Wrong cheesy steering wheel: i hate the 69 steering wheel. But again, easily switched.

Did Stevie Wonder out the stripes on?: I hope so, because unless it's a judge for real, any car i get is getting the stripes peeled off. I've never had a taste for them.

Tail lights fitment: not a lot of work, and i've had original GM pontiacs. Quarter panel to tail panel fitment off a bunch from the factory sometimes. I'd rather mess with bumpers and tail lights.

To me, those are still valid points, and those are also a reason to start dinging off the price of an offer.


Let me go through my "abortion" list:

Swapped motor but didn't put correct heads/intake/cam/etc on for the year of car (doesn't even have to be numbers matching)

Cobbled up carb conversion (edelbrock/holley/etc with missing choke parts/linkages/choke not hooked up/ RUBBER FUEL LINES WITH $2 FILTER ON 30K CAR!)

Poor paint in genera, especially cracking and chipped noses. You stand at the front and look at the engine bay, it's a focal point of the car.

Paint not a factory color (not THE factory color, just a correct color is nice)

Butchered wiring (wiring is expensive to do correctly any more)

Aftermarket gauges under the center cutting into factory harness/dashes don't work (seriously, the factory ones/lights worked, they don't make the car any faster. I like having more info too but not at the expense of butchering the harness and drilling factory clean dashes.)

Crappy exhaust (rusty headers/cherry bombs/exit right after axle.)

Quarter patches more than the size of your hand behind the rear wheel, where i know many cars have needed it and that's just life. (it's easy enough to put a whole quarter on, into the door area, into the trunk, up to the roof. The long cut-down-the-middle patches take more labor to look right than just swapping in a whole quarter, and i feel it should be a big value detractor)

Any cutting of the dash. Bezels ain't cheap.

AC parts missing/ripped off, capped

Engine bay spray painting en masse (the booster, AC box, wiring, master cyl and everything touching the engine bay sides was not flat black) Also spray painting everything on the engine the wrong later color blue (this is almost always with the claim that the car is original survivor)


I guess you can say, different things mean different things to different people. I don't care about wrong door panels and i can install emblems in a minute. I'm not redoing someones poor enduro fitment job or a ton of body work in 10-15 years when it starts to show.

[red1975pacer]

take a look at the red 1968 Matching number, hide away headlight, red 1968 GTO in the current issue of Smoke Signals {the POCI} magazine for 25k If you dont have the mag, call me here in Parma at 216 410 1904 and i'll give you the guys number. o yea I paid 40k for a matching number Gold level 68 color change magazine cover car in 2007. Good cars cost money and always will

[cortcomp]

Thank you for the lead! I went and checked and realized it's the one on the columbia craigslist. Vinyl top and red, really not my style. Car looks nice and like it's worth the money, it's just not the one for me.

Gold level car? I'd expect to pay 40k (at least) for something like that. It's too much for me (i could do that, but i just don't want to have that much money in a GTO and i plan on driving it, hate to detoriate an amazing restoration.) I'm sure what everyone thinks when they're browsing around is: Why do so many people (and auction houses...) think the one they have is your top quality car? 1K here and there ads up (and labor isn't free) to get those cars to the level you're talking.

Again, i don't expect a car given to me, and i am picky on details and so i know i may be waiting awhile. But, like anything, the more you wait the more it's worth it.

[red1975pacer]

Consider becoming a member of the North Coast Pontiac Club, Mark Tilson , president will be happy to accomidate you. Stop by at the new car show at the IX in late Feb. Ill be there with my 78 Trans Am, and 75 AMC Pacer. Mark Im sure will be there also, We"ll talk cars, and help ya out as much as we can

[cortcomp]

Finishing up the details on a gorgeous car not to far from me that hit every option on my list, will post up once the deal is complete!

[cortcomp]

Here she is, following me home now.

[Ram4king]

Looks like a nice one. Real Crystal car?

[cortcomp]

Originally Posted by Ram4king

Looks like a nice one. Real Crystal car?

Paint code on dataplate says yes on the original CT color, of course been repainted. Plate also says CA built if i recall. PHS should be in next week to verify the rest, that was enough for me to seal the deal.

[red1975pacer]

Nice , look forward to seeing it

[cortcomp]

Got PHS in this morning, and everything lines up:

Crystal Turquoise car with parchment interior, TH400 with console, power steering, power brakes, A/C, dash clock, remote mirror, Tilt Steering (a fav of mine), hidaways. only thing that doesn't match the PHS is the hood tach, and i probably would have added that myself. Motor is a '70 455 (build in late '69) that was rebuilt by Jim Taylor with 71 heads. (I knew it was a non-numbers matching car). The intake/choke/etc is all 69 though so without seeing the numbers it's hard to tell it's not the right block (i'm ok with that).

The nose could use a re-paint, it's fit is just ehh and it has some of the paint hairline cracks. The hood gap and trunk lid could just small adjustment. There was a small patch done on one of the lower quarters that i'll likely have addressed to look better. One small couple rust bubble spot on the lower fender that i'll have done at the same time. Lastly, couple small chips that i might as well have done while touching up the rest.

Other than that, the car is fantastic, it's how i would have done it myself. Very pleased to get it home, but it was a messy weekend weatherwise so now i need to wash it and decide what i want to start on. Shouldn't be much for me to do to be what i consider perfect.

[ponchjoe]

Very cool car. Non numbers means the skies the limit for making it your own! More pics, more pics, everyone loves CT.
Thanks for sharing.

[indymanjoe]

cortcomp,good points made.Enjoy your ride!

[Greg Reid]

That's a great color combo. I'm looking forward to hearing how well the paint will match as you do the bumper and spot repairs. My car is a similar color and I've been wondering as they almost all need touch-ups eventually.

[Ram4king]

Very tough color to match.