#21  
Old 04-08-2020, 11:08 AM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
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Default Correction Department 1082

71 GTO's NEVER used burwood appliqués on the dash bezel or automatic shifter bezels.
That is a crappy aftermarket response sold by catalogue & Internet site vendors that NEVER have a clue & continually offer the wrong parts or ill fitting junk (OPGI, PartsPlace, Y1, etc)

A recap of '70-72 bezel appliqués from a post I made years ago....

70 GTO and 70 LeMans used a one year light colored wood grain appliqué.
Of course the GTO's received the multi piece swirl in the lower inserts. Very common to see this style of woodgrain appliqué fading out with a slight pink hue. Have several original bezels of this style.

'70 and 71 233's, '70 Tempests & late 70 model and all of '71 model T-37/GT-37's typically received the black pebble grain bezel, and they normally received it with std equipment/idiot lights. When factory rally gauges were ordered, typically, the woodgrain LeMans bezel was used. That is how the cars were produced 99% of the time for '71 models. I do have several documented "factory screwups" noted in infomation from compiling the GT-37 Survey, one such bezel is the original in my HO GT-37, another was in the 400 4spd Hot Rod Test car, another a woodgrain/idiot light dash bezel in an original owner 350 GT-37 I had correspondence with many years ago. Harold was from Florida.

'71 LeMans the color of the woodgrain changed, the grain itself is darker.
Have several such original bezels.

'71 GTO used a special appliqué, the factory sales books called it Castilian leather. Believe it was Jeff, UncleJudge, & I that used to refer to this appliqué (in the 90's) as "suitcase leather". As of 2014, that particular appliqué had not been reproduced correctly in over 20 years, and when it was, it was a limited run. Most national vendors sell the incorrect burlwood stuff which is no where near correct for a '71 GTO. Why, because some supplier decided to run with it, many Olds A-bodys used "burl wood" vinyl appliqué pieces. Note: over the last 5-6 years, Ames actually began selling what they are noting as the correct appearance 71 GTO appliqué. I have not ordered it to compare to original pieces.

'72 LeMans and GTO bezels, I believe (but am willing to double ck several original bezels) use the same woodgrain appliqué as the '71 LeMans. On non AC '72 bezels, the PONTIAC script is gone, just smooth pebble grain in the top right area.

72 Lux LeMans is the oddball wood grain appliqué. it has a very dark woodgrain. this style dark wood grain also covers the lower inserts areas of the bezel. Have parted more '72 LeMans & '72 Lux LeMans than can remember. have only ran across the dark woodgrain in the Lux LeMans, never in a regular '72 LeMans.

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Last edited by 'ol Pinion head; 04-08-2020 at 11:18 AM.
  #22  
Old 04-08-2020, 12:04 PM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
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For a "highly detailed rotisserie restoration" of a '71 Judge, in a prev listing by the same "classics establishment" this 71 Judge was referred to as the finest ever, my .02, is it is far from one of the finest 71's ever restored. One should expect much more in depth research before many of the detailing aspects were completed..

Underbody, this ought to make a good discussion....
First, the original Turbo 400 pan should not be black, it was a natural steel. originally a '71 & 72 T400 cable bracket was not black either... A gray T400 vac modulator, uh no. an original would be a slightly shiny semigloss black, so are decades old correct style nos vac modulators.

appears to have a Gardener Exhaust with the full chrome exhaust extensions, for many, thats what gets installed. One dink, originally, the extensions & early production NOS examples were partial chrome with only the tips actually chromed, also stamped part numbers on each near the clamp area.

the McKinnon 12 bolt rear. also considerable incorrect detailing features. number one that sticks out, is the repro sticker sheet wrap around color band with WV noted for 3.55 single track. This style decal was never used on '70-72 Pontiac usage McKinnon 12 bolt axles. The two letter code was instead painted with a stencil on the face of one of the original brake drums.

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  #23  
Old 04-08-2020, 12:17 PM
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Back in the day. Around 88 or so. I bought this appliqué. Never thought of leather. Thought it was to mimic wood. But, makes sense it had a unique name.


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  #24  
Old 04-08-2020, 04:56 PM
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I'm curious if the dash bezel has the divider bar in the radio opening for all years? I'm referring to the horizontal bar that separates the push buttons from the dial face. I have a '70 Judge that the opening had been hacked to accept a DIN mount radio. I need to find a replacement and wonder if any '70-'72 will work?

Same question for the instrument cluster. Someone swapped the original basic cluster for a gauge cluster w/tach. I can't decide whether to keep it or not since it's not original, but need to know if I can use any '70-'72 standard cluster to replace it?

Thanks in advance!

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  #25  
Old 04-08-2020, 05:06 PM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
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Mike, very nice Sienna interior on your previous '71 GTO convert. Years ago I parted a ton of small items off a '71 455 Dport GTO hardtop that was the same color combination. In your pics, the Castillian leather GTO dash appliqué almost looks, color wise, like a continuation of the molded dash.

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  #26  
Old 04-08-2020, 05:15 PM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
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TE, the dash bezels had the divider bar. The only difference in the core '70-72 dash bezels was whether it was factory AC or '70-71 non AC or '72 non AC.

On the factory instruments, all '69 - early '72 model A-body idiot light sets will interchange, have numerous nice sets of both. the speedo needs to be a '70, 71, or early '72 model w 140 speedo to use in your '70. Personally, I'd keep the factory Rally Guage & factory tach setup in the car, unless it's faded & mildly rust pitted, or you are restoring the '70 Judge to literally, cutting edge Concours condition, & the car is going to be judged in Concours Restored @ Nationals.

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  #27  
Old 04-08-2020, 06:02 PM
tekuhn tekuhn is offline
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The gauges look pretty good to me. I got a spare (idiot light) dash with the car, but thanks to your information, I see the upper hole is for an a/c vent, and I take it my Pontiac plate will not transfer to it. My car is non-a/c and also non-radio. I'll probably reach out to see what you have to fix me up. I definitely won't be doing anything close to a concours restoration, and it's a keeper, so resale value is not my motivation either. Maybe I should just keep the gauges. Thank you for the information.

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  #28  
Old 04-09-2020, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head View Post
For a "highly detailed rotisserie restoration" of a '71 Judge, in a prev listing by the same "classics establishment" this 71 Judge was referred to as the finest ever, my .02, is it is far from one of the finest 71's ever restored. One should expect much more in depth research before many of the detailing aspects were completed.
Roger - you'd think for $130k asking price they would at least paint the intake manifold and get a silver cad alternator fan (at least it's the open-face variety). Those items slap you in the face as soon as the hood is lifted. That kind of money, in my opinion, should buy a "reference standard" car - one that is turn-key to compete at the highest concourse levels. One would hate to spend all that money, and then still have to do more work to fix details. Having said that, it is a beautiful machine!

Mike S - they should have checked out the engine compartment on your white '71 for a reference on how it should look ...

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  #29  
Old 04-09-2020, 02:26 PM
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Like I said. No restoration is perfect.

It’s nice and detailed and it’s all correctable.

But, Looking for top money in these hard times...

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  #30  
Old 04-09-2020, 03:56 PM
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Agreed a correct alternator is key to a nice engine bay detail...

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  #31  
Old 04-10-2020, 05:43 PM
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Here is the dash in my 71 HO car...as far as I know it is original to the car. Scott, MIke or Don can add some history.

I love the beauty of Lucy Blue with the Pink stripes and the subject car would be fun to own - but at that price it should be load-it and show-it and win.

My White 71 HO car is so much fun to drive and will give me the same smile as I feel that torque roll in as the blue car will to its owner - if it ever gets driven in the power band.

BJ
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