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Old 03-22-2020, 11:24 AM
EddieGTO EddieGTO is offline
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Default A whole new Judge

Hey all Pontiac aficionados!!

I have an interesting story...

I’ve owned my GTO for a couple decades and always knew what I had. A decent 1969 GTO Judge. I’ve got papers and numbers leading me to this conclusion.

I decided I wanted the PHS papers (previously I had the GM of Canada sheet), so mailed in my vin and cash. What I received back took me by surprise!

I indeed have a 1969 GTO Judge, but it is an original Ram Air IV car!

Well I knew the original motor wasn’t in the car (bought it with a ‘67 XH block with 670 heads) but how the hell did that code slip by myself and the previous owner???

Well the GM sheet had the correct L67 code (Ram Air IV), but wrote the wrong engine down.

So now I’m on the hunt for a unicorn.... a ‘69 Ram Air IV block 9792506 WW cast, early in the year of ‘69

Or better yet, a winged unicorn ... the original born with block, vin# 299832

If anyone has or knows of such a unicorn, please let me know!!

My car was built in Pontiac MI, and shipped up the Oshawa, Ont. I have no idea which dealership sold it, and how it came across Canada... it is now in Vancouver, BC
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  #2  
Old 03-22-2020, 01:50 PM
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WOW!
Congrats on your 'find'.


That looks like the Canadian invoice though?
(not PHS)

That was probably a heck of a car back then.


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Old 03-22-2020, 02:19 PM
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BTW, any pics of your car?



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Old 03-22-2020, 02:23 PM
cdnroundport cdnroundport is offline
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Default Canadian/Oshawa/Vintage vehicle services will tell you the dealer

Canadian/Oshawa/Vintage vehicle services will tell you the dealer

george_zapora@outlook.com
john_agueci@outlook.com

Vintage Vehicle Services Inc.

1189 Colonel Sam Drive, Oshawa, ON L1H 8W8


Tel: 905 440 7697 • Fax: 905 440 7644​

  #5  
Old 03-22-2020, 03:34 PM
EddieGTO EddieGTO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnroundport View Post
Canadian/Oshawa/Vintage vehicle services will tell you the dealer

george_zapora@outlook.com
john_agueci@outlook.com

Vintage Vehicle Services Inc.

1189 Colonel Sam Drive, Oshawa, ON L1H 8W8


Tel: 905 440 7697 • Fax: 905 440 7644​
Oh, good to know!!

  #6  
Old 03-22-2020, 03:37 PM
EddieGTO EddieGTO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnta1 View Post
BTW, any pics of your car?


Yup. Let me figure out how to post.
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  #7  
Old 03-22-2020, 04:10 PM
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Good looking Judge!
What size are the rear tires?



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KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever!


"Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts."

"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates
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Old 03-22-2020, 04:37 PM
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Brewster Brewster is offline
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Awesome, and congrats! How long have you owned the car?

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Old 03-22-2020, 04:50 PM
EddieGTO EddieGTO is offline
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Tires are 295/50r15

Owned this car about 22 years... second goat I’ve owned.

  #10  
Old 03-22-2020, 05:12 PM
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tempest1964 tempest1964 is offline
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Man, that is one sweet ride. Any history of previous owners? Maybe you could trace it backwards from the person you bought it from, and figure out who the motor was sold to. Good luck

  #11  
Old 03-22-2020, 09:58 PM
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keith k keith k is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnta1 View Post
WOW!
Congrats on your 'find'.


That looks like the Canadian invoice though?
(not PHS)

That was probably a heck of a car back then.

That's what you get from PHS on Canadian-sold cars.

The Vintage Vehicle Services document is something completely different. Sounds like they made a pretty big mistake.

Eddie, depending how long ago you got the GM Canada document, and if it was George Zapora who did it for you (he's been there a long time), he might be willing to get you a corrected one gratis.

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  #12  
Old 03-22-2020, 10:51 PM
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OVERULD OVERULD is offline
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Nice car, made even nicer by this discovery! Good luck with the hunt for the original block! 4-speed with the 4.33 gears and a RAIV was a bad-ass combination for the street scene. Would love to know the story of the last race that took out that engine.

BJ

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  #13  
Old 03-23-2020, 01:02 AM
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Nice story with your car so I thought I would share my story with GM of Canada with my Judge . Although not a ram air 4. I bought this car what I always thought was a real Judge but after I purchased it, the owner gave me the GM of Canada papers and a copy of the micro film build sheet. The GM Canada build sheet was missing WT1.(Judge) but when I closely zoomed in on the micro film (which they don't give out anymore) it clearly had WT1. On the GM Canada sheet all the codes where there except WT1 was a WS2,
So I sent for the PHS documents and when I received them I was relieved It had WT1 (Judge) instead of WS2 which if I remember was the code for rear shoulder belts?
Don't think i've ever heard of anybody ordering WS2?
PS Would of been nice to be a RA4 LOL! but i'm just as glad it was a real 69 Judge.

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Old 03-23-2020, 06:53 AM
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Thanks Keith for the clarification. I must not have seen many of them.




WS2 - Deluxe Seat Belts & Shoulder Harness- Frt & RR


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Pontiac Power RULES !!!
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Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova
Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats

KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever!


"Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts."

"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates
  #15  
Old 03-23-2020, 02:31 PM
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Had to clarify from my last post that the PHS build sheet came back with 554 UPC code for Judge not WT1 which would be on a Canadian invoice FYI.
Got mixed up there.

The car also has WS1 for the deluxe seat belts.

Why they added WS2 is a mystery?

  #16  
Old 03-24-2020, 12:15 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieGTO View Post
I indeed have a 1969 GTO Judge, but it is an original Ram Air IV car!

Well I knew the original motor wasn’t in the car (bought it with a ‘67 XH block with 670 heads) but how the hell did that code slip by myself and the previous owner???

Well the GM sheet had the correct L67 code (Ram Air IV), but wrote the wrong engine down.
Good gosh what an amazing story !
Congrats to you and your Judge.
All of us would be doing backflips and cartwheels in the front yard after getting that information / revelation.

Can you post a copy of the initial Canada document with the error ?

  #17  
Old 03-24-2020, 01:21 PM
Tenney Tenney is offline
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Pretty darn cool!

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