[Tarl]

Hi All,.

Looking to put in a lincoln MKVIII fan in my 66 lemans with 70 455. I have the 100 amp 12si in there right now and have heard it doesn't generate enough power.

Has anyone ever installed a CS144 on their pontiac v8? If you could share which model number and what kind of bracket and wiring alterations that you did.

I searched around the archives but haven't been able to find much.

Thanks in advance!

[leeklm]

I don't know if it is technically enough, but I run a 100amp alternator with a Mark8 fan. However the only other electronics I have are an electric fuel pump and lights. No stereo, pwr windows, AC, etc. So far no issues.

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[Ben M.]

The CS144 alternator requires a taller bracket to run in your car (6.6" 10SI\12SI vs 7.2" CS144). The '71+ brackets will need to be cut and modified to make this work. I used a '67-69 bracket once as a test fit and it did work, but there was no bracing in the back and I was concerned it wouldn't last under heavy load (the project got put on hold). I would say unless you truly need the full output, a CS130 alternator is an acceptable solution as it is the same dimension as the existing 10SI\12SI. Tell the parts store you want one for a 1989 Cadillac Brougham with the Olds 307.

If you're handy with fabrication you can easily make your own brackets, but if you were already that handy you likely wouldn't be asking here... I am terrible at metalwork and welding so that was out as a solution for me.

[chiphead]

I did the CS130 conversion and it works pretty well. The CS series produces more amps at a lower shaft RPM than a SI series. The CS130D is rated at 105 amps, and even the highest rated 10SI was only 63 amps, and the 12SI high output was 94 amps. Yes some aftermarket 12SIs will make over 100A, but they've been hot-rodded and exceed the cooling ability of the original design. The CS series was designed to pick up where the SI left off. Some of the CS alternators used a metric lower bolt, so if using a 3/8-16 bolt, you may need a spacer in the hole to take up the slack due to the smaller OD of the 3/8 bolt. There are also two different front covers for CS130, one has 6.14" and the other 6.6" bolt spacing. Measure across the holes on the one you get, to make sure it's the right size.

You'll also need to swap to the CS alternator plug, but it's not a big deal. There was a member here named stellar that sourced me some CS parts. I got the front cover with the 6.6" spacing from him after I purchased one with the wrong bolt spacing and realized it didn't fit.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp...kyard-builder/

[ponjohn]

I ran a 12si with a M8 fan without issue. BUT you need to run a fan controller. It improves the efficiency of the fan with PWM signal.

I used dc controls fan controller.

[mrennie]

The CS144 works well and is a good swap because it can produce full output at much lower RPM that the 10/12SI units.

I installed one on my 70 455. The unit I ordered was from Rock Auto for a 1996 Chev Caprice w/5.7L and 140A with Police, or taxi option. Was a rebuilt ACDelco #3211111, and was listed to replace OEM #10463678. Note that this listing does not exist today, but there are other listings for 140A so I assume they are similar.

The unit I received needed a few mods. First, the electrical plug was in a bad spot and would interfere with being able to rotate the unit for belt adjustment as the wires would hit the intake. To fix this, I removed the 4 long bolts that hold the unit together and rotated the front and rear halves of the unit 90* and reinstalled the bolts. No actual disassembly needed. This brought the plug into a better spot with no interference.

Next, I found that one of the casting bosses on the back of this unit would hit the intake and reduce belt adjustment. I used a carbide burr and ground it down on the alternator , which fixed this.

Third, I had to remove the serpentine pulley to install my V belt pulley. No drama here, they swap easily and V belt seems to have lined up without needing to shim. I will point out that others have commented that the HP required to provide full output is close to or exceeds the capacity of the V belt drive. I am not driving my car yet and have only ran the engine on a test stand so no experience to offer here. My reasoning for wanting this unit wasn't the 140A so much as getting lots of output at low RPM for my electrical load.

Lastly, the location and arc of the adjusting slot on the 1970 alternator bracket does not match the arc of the larger alternator. To fix this I cut the bracket and made the slot bigger, then welded it back together and did some grinding and painting. Works fine and looks OK once done.

I think I have some pics of some of this, I will look tonight and post if I find them.

[mrennie]

Forgot to add, you will need a new plug to mate to the CS144. They are available from NAPA, and I believe there are 2 different versions, one for if you have a dash light and a different one for dash gauges.

[FrankieT/A]

If you use an alternator from a 1990 corvette it is a direct bolt on for a Pontiac. change the pulley, change the 5/16 adjuster bolt to metric and you get a pigtail conversion from any parts store. 100 amps at idle, way better than any 10SI or 12SI. I think it is a CS 144 but don't hold me to that.

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by FrankieT/A

I think it is a CS 144 but don't hold me to that.

It isn't, it's a CS130. Good recommendation though, it's a decent alternator.

[hgerhardt]

Which accessory brackets are on your 455? The original aluminum '66 brackets or the later sheet metal ones? If the orig brackets, a CS144 fits fine, with the above-mentioned clocking and pulley swap. Mine did not have boss interference issues on my 428 with '67-up valve covers. I've had a CS144 on my '66 GTO for 20+ years, and I believe it came from a 4.9L Cadillac (but the LT1 unit seems to be the same). I like the 144 over the 130 as it's easier to rebuild.

Also I've never had any belt slippage issues during high output. I have dual electric fans and dual fuel pumps and euro halogen headlights, and A/C, so significant load when all is operating.

One thing to keep in mind is the original B+ wire is undersized for 140A and you'll have to upgrade that.

[mrennie]

So my memory is not at good as I thought..LOL. I looked through my pics, and then remembered that the 70 alternator bracket was a problem and I could not get the alternator to fit without the top ear hitting underneath the bracket.

The fix required several steps:

-take front half of alternator off to figure out the fit

-cut part of top ear off to clear under the alternator bracket

-machine front edge of top ear to remove the step (you could file or grind, I just happen to have a Bridgeport close by ) This is required to get proper alignment with inside of alternator bracket.

-cut off bottom of alternator bracket adjustment slot and re-weld higher up

-cut new adjustment slot in bracket

-cut square slot in alternator ear for carriage bolt

-install washer and nut on adjustment bolt

The alternator brackets found on other years of engines that are just a flat strap have none of these issues as the strap can be moved or tweaked, the 70 bracket is a large stamped piece that does not allow this.

[mrennie]

More pics

[mrennie]

More pics

Also...The area that needed to be ground off was due to interference with the valve cover, not the intake manifold.

[lust4speed]

Another point to consider is when I tested my Mark VIII fan it pulled 56 amps on startup and only 42 amps continuous which is considerably less than other claims I've heard. Even if my meter was off, I would consider any 100 amp alternator more than up to the challenge. The Mark VIII is on the drag car and my alternator is a CS130D. The 144 is a very high amp alternator, but just don't think you need to go that far.

[Tarl]

Wow, appreciate all the information, especially the pictures from MRennie! I am using the stamped steel brackets from the 70 for my accessories, only have PS and the alternator now. I definitely should be able to cobble something together now thanks to you guys. I am planning on using a volvo dual fan relay & controller for the M8 fan with a BMW hi/low temp sensor. I will post once I complete this swap during the winter.

Thanks again!

[Formula8]

I just put a CS130 on mine. I have dual LS1 fans and a few electrical updates that required the 105A CS130. I used one from a 1991 Chevrolet V3500 diesel since it uses a V-belt and is clocked appropriately representing pretty much a plug and play deal.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...generator,2412

Pretty much bolted in. No way I would go through the CS144 hassle unless I absolutely needed more than 100 amps. Even then, I think I would go with an aftermarket CS130 and be done with it.

[Formulas]

Does the CS130 require plug adaption or is it the same as a 10SI / 12SI there ?

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by Formula8

I just put a CS130 on mine. I have dual LS1 fans and a few electrical updates that required the 105A CS130. I used one from a 1991 Chevrolet V3500 diesel since it uses a V-belt and is clocked appropriately representing pretty much a plug and play deal.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...generator,2412

Pretty much bolted in. No way I would go through the CS144 hassle unless I absolutely needed more than 100 amps. Even then, I think I would go with an aftermarket CS130 and be done with it.

Good info. Readily available if on the road and does not require a pulley swap.

[73 TRANSAM]

I put a Denso 320 amp on mine. It puts out a lot of amp and does it at low rpm too. The Denso supposed to be a more reliable alternator from what I read when I was looking for a higher output alternator. I do have to mess with the spacing as I made mine to fit. I do have an under drive pulley to boot.

[RocktimusPryme]

Related question, does the cs130 add or reduce strain on the belt? (More or less likely to screech).

I could be wrong here, but I think if you go from a 63 amp SI to a higher amp unit it takes more grunt to spin doesn’t it? I’ve even seen some alternators set up for twin V belts.

I was wondering if the CS alternators through improved design required less effort to spin and produce the same amperage.