[78w72]

It was requested by another member to do a poll in a recent off the rails thread to see what others think about doing this, it was stated a few times that his engine is cleaner than anyone else on here because it was filled with 2 gallons of pure ATF and ran for 30 minutes... 2 different times.

I mentioned a few points on why doing that was not a good idea for the engine and even posted a link to a reputable oil company explaining some reasons, but was met with an "opinionated argument" as to why that is all nonsense because a “wise” mechanic told him to do it. Keep in mind, the old DIY way of doing this was to add about 1 qt of ATF to the existing oil and run it for a short time before an oil change, just like any other engine flush product, NOT filling the engine with 100% ATF and running it for half an hour.

Most members on here know a lot about engine oils and their additives, that ATF does not have, to protect against wear & extreme pressures such as cam/lifter wear as well as detergent additives that are much stronger than ATF since ATF isnt designed for internal combustion uses, its hydraulic fluid. There is no zinc/phos (zddp) in ATF and with all the fuss about cam/lifter protection, I was surprised nobody commented on that when it was mentioned, bet the cam and lifters loved pure ATF!

The poll is to vote for using 100% ATF in an engine. 1 qt of ATF diluted in the oil. Using a real engine flush intended for that purpose or products like MMO or seafoam etc & following the simple instruction on the can. or, just using a good oil and changing it as needed? Feel free to add any comments on the reasons using pure ATF is a good or bad idea.

[Elarson]

Good oil, change regularly, make sure the engine is thoroughly warmed up sometimes and avoid all the snake oil and tricky ideas.

JMHO,
Eric

[Elarson]

My most horrifying oil story of all time:

I was in a discount store buying oil. There were 2 other guys in the oil aisle...the newbie getting ready to do his first oil change and his expert friend. The expert was explaining that newbie should drain the old oil out, put the plug back in, then drive the car around the block to get the rest of the old oil out, drain again and fill with the new oil.

Eric

[61-63]

Back in the 60s in my area guys would run 50% oil and 50% naptha for say 15 minutes on a lift, then drain it and put new oil and filter in. Never seemed to hurt any of their engines. But the deal to me is that no factory chassis book I have ever read says to do something like that, so why do it?

[jhein]

I had a friend who was part of our local Pontiac gang when I was a youngster. He would use straight diesel for a couple minutes to de-sludge motors. As far as I know he never killed a motor doing that, and it did appear to get a lot of sludge out, but I still never adopted the practice.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by 61-63

Back in the 60s in my area guys would run 50% oil and 50% naptha for say 15 minutes on a lift, then drain it and put new oil and filter in. Never seemed to hurt any of their engines. But the deal to me is that no factory chassis book I have ever read says to do something like that, so why do it?

Factory manuals werent written with high mileage or poor maintenance engines in mind. I dont think using a mild engine cleaner if needed & following the instructions is a bad thing or will cause any damage, seafoam for example is like 1oz/qt, that wont harm the engine or weaken the oil enough to cause harm for the short time its ran. IIRC seafoam uses 25-35% naptha along with other mild ingredients for cleaning.

ATF on the other hand has zero additives that engines need, even used for 30 minutes it is not protecting the engine at all, the cam/lifters are under constant full forces, literally grinding the surfaces against each other with no protection at all. Looks like using pure ATF is now being questioned by the guy that used it if it may be causing the current noises...

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by 61-63

Back in the 60s in my area guys would run 50% oil and 50% naptha for say 15 minutes on a lift, then drain it and put new oil and filter in. Never seemed to hurt any of their engines. But the deal to me is that no factory chassis book I have ever read says to do something like that, so why do it?

Back in the early '60 I worked in a gas station. You didn't have the cleaners you have today and the oil had nowhere near the additives it has today. Some of the things those old timers did would really scary some of you.

Stan

[tempest1964]

I have seen kerosene added to oil to clean a sludge filled motor. Cleaned it out pretty good. Can't speak to the long-term effects on the engine.

[jhein]

Sludge story unrelated to solvents.

When I was 16 I was at my best friends older brothers shop. His partner was doing an oil change on a poorly maintained car. The oil was thick sludge. So he got the idea of using his torch to heat the pan. He got a ear-to-ear grin when the oil started flowing out. As he was getting near the end, he got the flame too close to the drain hole. By that time the oil was barely trickling out. Next thing you know, there was a small explosion from the fumes in the pan. there was a bout 2 foot long flame that blew out of the hole. Singed his hair a bit and scared the crap out of him. Once we realized he was OK we all had a really good laugh.

[Johnny406]

In the early 90's I picked up a used and very nasty but cheap 400 SBC to get a friend's Chevelle running. I was advised by an older gentleman at the auto craft shop (Army base) to use 3 quarts of tranny fluid and 2 quarts of oil and to run the motor for 20 minutes (no load), let it completely cool for several hours, and repeat two more times. So much sludge and crap came out that I had to unclog the drain hole several times with a screwdriver to drain it all out.

That engine was very worn/tired but it was running when I left Ft. Carson to go back to Germany. He was changing plugs all the time because the valve guides were shot but...

Would I do that again today? Hell No but it did work(ish) for what it's worth...

[tom s]

I have been involved in a few boat sinkings,the engines were pulled ASAP and drained and they were filled with dsl fuel to the very top,drained and refilled with dsl to proper level.Got them running for a few minutes,drained and proper level of engine oil was put on,started and ran with no issues.FWIW,Tom

[78w72]

Im sure we all have "old days" stories, most are very interesting but as most say at the end of the story, they would never do that again today.

Feel free to post those stories but this thread is more about using any of the polled options today... & any comments related to using pure ATF in an engine and what that could do to the internals.

[tom s]

I would do the dsl again if I was unlucky enough to have to another sinking!Tom

[i82much]

I did a very thorough engine flush on an old 396 once. I flooded the engine with about a gallon of raw fuel and went for a 30 minute drive ... finally noticed a strong fuel smell and that my oil pressure was about half of what it normally was ... drained the oil/gas mixture, refilled, and the engine ran better than ever before. Worked like a charm!!! Just glad I didn't somehow get an errant spark in the crankcase while I was driving it ...

[Ram Air IV Jack]

Originally Posted by tempest1964

I have seen kerosene added to oil to clean a sludge filled motor. Cleaned it out pretty good. Can't speak to the long-term effects on the engine.

The Gunk motor clean came in a quart can and I used it at oil changes. It smelled like kerosine and a few people I knew said it was. Back in the 70's in Popular Science magazine, Smokey Yunick had a regular column about mechanics and cars. In one article he spoke and promoted Rislone as an engine cleaner. Yunick wrote, drain all the oil out and fill the engine with Rislone and let it idle for 30 minutes but keep an eye on it. I actually did this because I had some lifter noise in my 400 at the time. It worked somewhat but never did that again. Yunick was well known so I thought at the time this should work.

[Formulajones]

You'd be better off using a high quality oil and do a friggin oil analysis so you know when it's time to change it, get a better idea of the internal condition of the engine, the quality of the oil and filter your using, and then stick to the provided guide lines. It's not rocket science. You'd think people would want to do this considering how expensive it is to build an engine.

There was a thread recently where someone here was having trouble with a little antifreeze in the oil and eventually had bearing problems, and was unaware. From what I remember it was after an engine refresh he decided to do an oil analysis and to his surprise found there was still antifreeze getting into the oil and possibly causing bearing damage due to the high amounts of copper that were also found in the oil analysis. Hopefully he caught it early enough.

[Half-Inch Stud]

As a kid in 70s and junkyard scrounger in the 80s, so many engines had caked charcoal gunk inside that these "engine flush ideas" all fail. Gotta rebuild em.

As for MAINTAINED engines in the 90s+, the oils just get dark to a medium roast coffee color and the flush ideas are interestiong. I'd go for half synthetic.

If boredom kicked-in, i could be moved to fill with kero/diesel/ mineral spirits and run the starter a long bit. As for ignition, idling, driving, i dunno. Beer and whole lotta don't givadarn would have to kick.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by i82much

I did a very thorough engine flush on an old 396 once. I flooded the engine with about a gallon of raw fuel and went for a 30 minute drive ... finally noticed a strong fuel smell and that my oil pressure was about half of what it normally was ... drained the oil/gas mixture, refilled, and the engine ran better than ever before. Worked like a charm!!! Just glad I didn't somehow get an errant spark in the crankcase while I was driving it ...

That wasn't oil pressure, it was fuel pressure.

[MIke L]

I use whatever something is intended for.
I use ATF in the trans, just oil in the crankcase, antifreeze in the radiator etc etc.

I have too much money invested in my 65 and not enough to do it over again to use something it wasn’t intended for.
What someone did 50 yrs ago, the results of a poll or some other short cut isn’t worth anything to me.


Mike

[b-man]

Probably the worst thing you can do is use some chemicals in your crankcase to break free a bunch of crud all at once that was fine if left where it was deposited. Clogging up your oil pickup screen and damaging an otherwise okay engine is your reward.

There are products which are formulated to slowly clean up deposits and unstick lifters and such but backyard use whatever comes to mind or happen to have on hand methods are questionable at best.