[John Haley]

Answers to: A few technical questions.

How do you bond the two halves of the hood?

I can use body panel bonding epoxy or just the resin I use to make the hood, to bond the frame to the skin.

Side to side in the mold, I laid three strands of carbon thread next to each other down the center crest of the hood. I then laid my first layer of carbon in two pieces at angles off the center in herring bone fashion, carefully aligning and cutting my carbon cloth and hiding the cuts behind the three strands of carbon. Once I had that layer cut and in place and covered in resin, I then laid up a second layer of carbon cloth.

What is the purpose of the vacuum bagging?

For a thinner and compressed denser part and to help form the cloth into the contours and corners

[John Haley]

Some guys they just give up living
And start dying little by little, piece by piece
Some guys come home from work and wash up
And go racin' in the street

[The Boss]

[69TAPOSER]

Hi John-

The hood is looking great!

A few questions...

- Do you have a target price in mind for the hood?
- Can it be painted a color without much prep? (I have a fiberglass t/a hood with a steel frame that has been in storage since the late 90s...and I have been told the glass hoods take a LOT of work).

Thanks,

Phil

[John Haley]

I am thinking: $4000 for a carbon hood ready to bolt on and go to the show.

$3000 for a carbon hood that needs paint, may have air bubbles and other cosmetic issues, will fit without any fitting on the sides, front or back, may need minimal body work(about a golf ball size of bondo), may not need any body work. Just sand and paint.

$2000 for a fiberglass hood ready to bolt on, sand and paint, will fit without any fitting on the sides, front or back, may need minimal body work(about a golf ball size of bondo), may not need any body work.

All of these will come right out of the mold pretty much laser straight and flat, with correct beveled edge fit just like the factory hoods and fit's perfect on all sides of the hood. All will have fitted scoop inserts.

I am going to try and get some metal latch catches from whoever makes the new metal frames, to bond into the frame so these don't have to be a pin on deal.

I have a fiberglass hood with the metal frame and I can't make it fit as nice as mine fit. I think I have about 6-10hrs into just getting it to the point of being able to clear all sides and get it to shut all the way and latch and it still needs a ton of work to be anything near ready for paint. the sides still need work and the top is lumpy like a bag of walnuts

Please let me know what you guys think of my pricing.

Call if you want to talk, 612-226-6115 John

[69TAPOSER]

I have no idea what the market will bear, but I can give you my perspective from a cost/benefit.

I am not interested in keeping the carbon fiber look (and I know others will may pay more for this look), but for me it is simply about getting the best fitting hood. So I break it down this way (I pay $45/hr for bodywork here in NH but I am not a body guy, so these are guesstimates):

Fiberglass with steel frame:
Cost - $600 Approx. work required: 16 hours. Total cost: $1320.

Steel hood:
Cost - $1300 Approx work required: 4 hours. Total cost: $1480.

Assuming my numbers are close, the "value" that I would place on your hood for me would be in the $1300 range for one that is ready to paint.

I am sure there are other benefits to the Carbon Fiber (like weight savings) that I am not factoring in here, this is just my assessment based purely on price.

Also, my #1 choice would be a nice fitting steel hood, so I do not fit in your ideal customer profile.

Phil

[jlwdvm]

Not to hijack the thread, but what body work has to be done to the steel hoods to get them ready for paint? Are we talking about basic finish work, or fitment problems that need to be worked out? I will be in the market for a TA hood for my 69 project and am wondering what is goint to be the best route to take.

[John Haley]

Originally Posted by 69TAPOSER

I have no idea what the market will bear, but I can give you my perspective from a cost/benefit.

I am not interested in keeping the carbon fiber look (and I know others will may pay more for this look), but for me it is simply about getting the best fitting hood. So I break it down this way (I pay $45/hr for bodywork here in NH but I am not a body guy, so these are guesstimates):

Fiberglass with steel frame:
Cost - $600 Approx. work required: 16 hours. Total cost: $1320.

Steel hood:
Cost - $1300 Approx work required: 4 hours. Total cost: $1480.

Assuming my numbers are close, the "value" that I would place on your hood for me would be in the $1300 range for one that is ready to paint.

I am sure there are other benefits to the Carbon Fiber (like weight savings) that I am not factoring in here, this is just my assessment based purely on price.

Also, my #1 choice would be a nice fitting steel hood, so I do not fit in your ideal customer profile.

Phil

Go try and have your steel frame hood fitted.

If someone has already, please let us know what you had to pay and how nice is it?

I can do body work and I do it real good. 16hrs will not make the Early Birds steel frame fiberglass hood that I have ready for paint.

There is far more than 4hrs into just making the scoop inserts fit that The Parts Place sells for their steel hood.

Did you look at the pictures I posted of The Parts Place hood scoop inserts compared to mine and the others? If you have a body guy that can make those the correct shape in 4hrs go for it. I do not think any body shop guy could even get close to the correct shape if he does not have an original set to compare to. I can make The Parts Place hood scoop inserts fit perfect and have the correct contours, only because I have originals to compare to. I sure can't make them right in 4hrs though.

[69TAPOSER]

John-

I am not a body guy and I am just going from what others have told me, they could be off as I have not had mine done yet. Feel free to revise my body work estimates based on your experience. I am sure others will jump in here that have experience to post up their estimates.

I will have real #s on the fiberglass hood in a few months, as my car is heading to the shop this winter for final paint.

I am also anxious to hear feedback on the steel hood...I have read 1 post and it wasn't flattering.

My honest perspective on pricing is that I would not pay more than $1500 for any hood for my car. Again, just what my personal pricing threshold for a hood purchase. I am not saying at all what your hood is or is not worth. The market will decide that and I am only 1 prespective. Where I do have a decent amount of money into my car, I am certainly not a "highest end of the market" type of buyer.

With the pricing that you have outlined, I would assume that you are targeting the highest end of the market and as such you have aligned your volume projections to this market.

Phil

[dhutton]

I used one of those steel framed hoods on my car. I think fitting the scoops and prepping it for paint probably took me 20 hours. However, the fit is still not great - it is a little low in the corners and a little high in the beak. I think another few hours could have made it better but I did not realize the remaining issues until it was painted. I think I paid around $750 for the hood and scoops.

That being said I don't think I could spend $2000 dollars for a better fitting hood given that my labor is essentially free and my budget is somewhat limited. I think a good price point for the fiberglass hood and scoops would be around $1300. This compares to the all metal hood that is now available. I can't place a good price on the carbon fiber version because I'm not a big fan of carbon fiber.

Not meaning to offend, just offering up some input. I think there is a market for your hoods at your proposed price but it will be the high end builders, not the average guy plugging away in his shop like me. If you can include the average guys the market size may be much larger.

Don

[John Haley]

Pretty much all the carbon fiber hoods that are on the market, are mostly fiberglass with 1 or 2 layers of carbon on the top for the look some are all fiber glass with black fiberglass for the top layer that looks just like carbon fiber. This is how they are able to sell them at the low prices you see out there.

The last hood skin I showed is 2 layers of carbon with resin and nothing else. It will need at least 2 more layers, maybe 4 more layers of carbon and some kind of foam core in the middle to be rigid enough. The frame will need about 4 layers of carbon. Cost of material is about $125 per layer. That is about $1500 in material cost for a 100% carbon hood not including the cost and time of making the molds.

100% Carbon fiber hood, $4000 for a carbon hood ready to bolt on and go to the show.

Fiberglass base and frame, frame painted black, with 2 layers of carbon on top ready to bolt on and go to the show. $2500

no one will ever know it is not 100% carbon unless you weigh it against a 100% carbon hood.

[superteen]

Why dont you make a fiberglass hood & inserts ?
I dont think your going to sell many carbon fiber hoods & inserts.
Just have the carbon fiber hood & inserts be special order parts

[John Haley]

My secondary mold plug for the factory beveled sides works perfect. I get all the factory contours on the sides to clear the rubber bumpers and bolts. Again these come out of the mold and drop right on my car with no cutting or sanding.

[John Haley]

I made another hood skin. This one came out of the mold almost 100% perfect and very rigid. I have done nothing other than cut the holes for the scoop inserts.


All it needs is sanding with 1000 grit and some clear coat.

[The Boss]

That one is very cool John!

[RAJ7395]

Wow!! That's an awesome job!! Very nicely done!!

[69taconv]

Helluva job!I know you are tired of somes opinions ,but have you
thought from a pure sales standpoint you could sell scoops easier
for the metal Parts Place steel hoods or are they limited production?
Just a thought,Good Luck!If I ever sell my steel setup I'll probably look you up
for an all carbon copy.Really looking good!

[John Haley]

Originally Posted by 69taconv

Helluva job!I know you are tired of somes opinions ,but have you
thought from a pure sales standpoint you could sell scoops easier
for the metal Parts Place steel hoods or are they limited production?
Just a thought,Good Luck!If I ever sell my steel setup I'll probably look you up
for an all carbon copy.Really looking good!

I would be willing to do some trading for your stuff.

I would make scoop inserts for the parts place hoods, but I need one of their hoods or just the scoop area off of one of their damaged ones.

[John Haley]

I made a new set of scoop inserts, with the larger 6k carbon to match the hood.
I am laid up the frame today and should be pulling it from the mold tomorrow.

[hojs69]

Very nice work...labor of love so to speak.

Did anyone over at protouring.com ever reply / PM you? I would think many of the 1st Gen Firebird crowd over there would be a more receptive audience. Perhaps a better market for such a CF hood. Some of those folks spare no expense on their vehicles for quality product.

Regards.