[gtoresto]

I am doing a resto on a 67 GTO convert. The frame is pitted in several areas I am trying to locate the vin numbers/date codes on the left rear rail and can't find any. Either they are gone or I'm not looking in the correct area. Can anyone advise me either with a picture or an exact location of any numbers on my frame. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. D

[Cardo]

The frame vin should be located just behind the #6 body mount which is the first one behind the axle on the left hand rail. Clean it lightly with a wire brush, then try coloring / dusting the rail top with chalk.... that may help you find it if it's real faint.

[squidtone]

GTOresto,
I recently did some archeological work on my 67 convertible and found the VIN in the middle of the flat section of the rear frame rail. It's flat for about 2 feet and it was right in the middle. It was very hard to find, but a wire brush brought it out.
Interestingly, I was recently working on my wheel well patches and during one of my just-sitting-there-staring-sessions, I noticed some white paint behind the old undercoating on the driver side frame rail (same area as the VIN). So I scraped off the undercoating and found some white painted numbers. They are upside down. Attached is a pic, upside down, of the numbers. I see a PPS and a number, then I guess what is a date of 2/14/67. I'm amazed it's still somewhat readable. You can also see in the pic the tailpipe hanger for reference. Anyone else find these numbers?

[gtoresto]

Cardo,
Can you tell me if the numbers stamped on the left rail near the #6 body mount are on the side where they can be seen with the body on or on the very top wher you'd need to use a mirror.

Dave, Thanks for the picture. It's cool to see that is still readable after all these years. The car I'm doing does'nt have any traces of paint or dates like that.

Does any one know if there are any other date codes or markings that may be stamped. I can't seem to find any #'s on my frame anywhere.
Thanks again for all the advise. D

[Cardo]

They're on top of the frame rail, so you'll need a mirror. I'm not certain if you could actually see them with a mirror and the body on the car.

[boltbuster]

I managed to find the numbers on the frame of my 67 hardtop with the body on, using a mirror, but it was an 'interesting' chore. Nonetheless, it is do-able.

[gtoresto]

Thanks guys! I thought the #'s were on that top edge. I have the body off and there are no traces anywhwere. I was also told it may have never been stamped????? My frame is fairly pitted so I can't be sure. D

[6704gto]

the number are on the top frame rail on the left side behind the axle be care full cause if you sand to hard you can wipe the number off

[az67goat]

When I had my trunk floor out I looked real hard for the number. A couple of stamped numbers were there. That's all I found.

[6d7gto]

Sometimes you have to look real close with a magnifying glass but they are there (or I should say they were there 40 years ago). Below the VIN, on the side of that same left rail, are stampings of the date code, part number and manufacturer of the frame.

[gtoresto]

The #'s are either gone and flaked off or were never there.They may have been stamped so lightly that they can no longer be seen.

[squidtone]

GTOresto,
Have you wirebrushed the heck out of the area? I would really bear down with a wire brush, getting rid of all the flaky stuff. Then I would chalk it and rub it in and try different techniques for wiping it. Also, a light held at a very low angle may reveal some traces.
I went with the wire brush routine, and I then saw evidence of stampings. But I wouldn't have seen them if I didn't know they were there. And I couldn't read them until I used droplight at a low angle.

And I know I could never have seen them without the trunk floor out of the way.

It's too bad you don't have a FBI kit handy (heh heh), I think there are ways to use etchants to bring out localized fatiguing from stampings even after they're visually worn away from age/rust.

Good luck
Dave

[ZeGermanHam]

Originally Posted by gtoresto

Thanks guys! I thought the #'s were on that top edge. I have the body off and there are no traces anywhwere. I was also told it may have never been stamped????? My frame is fairly pitted so I can't be sure. D

Mega thread revival time... Is there any merit to the suggestion that some 1967 frames may have left the factory without being stamped? This was suggested today by someone on Facebook who holds a prominent position with GTOAA. He says he has "done" over a dozen '67 GTOs and according to him, none of them had the last 8 characters of the VIN stamped on the top of the frame behind the rear wheel. I am doubtful of the claim that some may have escaped without being stamped.

[OG68]

Here is a bit of info from the Chevelle Stuff site.

http://www.chevellestuff.net/qd/frames.htm

Apparently missing frame numbers wasn't all that uncommon.

[Cardo]

Wow!!! Old dead thread shows up! Here is a photo of my frame VIN. As you can see it's on the drivers side of the frame, and if you look carefully you can see it's stamped just above the exhaust hanger holes. I'm certain it's possible some frames got out without a stamp - human beings were assembling these cars, but I really wouldn't think it was prevalent.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by ZeGermanHam

Mega thread revival time... Is there any merit to the suggestion that some 1967 frames may have left the factory without being stamped? This was suggested today by someone on Facebook who holds a prominent position with GTOAA. He says he has "done" over a dozen '67 GTOs and according to him, none of them had the last 8 characters of the VIN stamped on the top of the frame behind the rear wheel. I am doubtful of the claim that some may have escaped without being stamped.

My vote would be: It's possible.

I ran the frame stamp area in a pickup truck assembly plant and in the event of a mis-stamp, or getting out of sequence, things get sideways very quickly.

The VIN stamper is a large hydraulic "press" hanging from a tool rail and with the weight offset by a "balancer" (imagine a Harley-Davidson hanging from the ceiling that you are supposed to deftly maneuver into position and press a button). It is supposed to index to the next digit automatically -but - if you mis hit or get out of sequence for some reason then you have to make a repair. Different division names (ie, Chevy/GMC, or Buick vs Olds vs Pontiac) may have different VIN sequence numbers, requiring different stampers hanging there, so if the operator stamps a Chevy VIN on a GMC, for example, then not only is that particular truck wrong but you are out of sequence on every truck after that.

The assembly line repair person and/or the "quality man" (the foreman's right hand man) follow the vehicles down the line with an "X" stamp and a 5 lb hammer and correct the VIN sequence number as required.

Usually it's not just one vehicle. It normally takes several trucks before somebody notices, especially if things have been up to that point running smoothly and you are "in the zone". That means you'll have five or six trucks that have to be fixed - all without the line stopping - so it's quite a scramble for a few minutes while you figure out what went wrong and what has to happen to make it right, especially at 60 or 70 jobs per hour (that's one completed vehicle off the end of the line every minute). You pray nothing else goes to crap while you've got your two best guys otherwise unavailable.

At one time I would have said that we caught all the mistakes, being a federal regulation and all, but I have seen enough mis hits in my time as a hobbyist to believe some got out.

K

[ZeGermanHam]

Good info, thank you. So it sounds like there may be some out there without stampings, but if all went according to plan at the factory the '67 frames should have the last 8 characters of the VIN stamped on them.

This all came about because someone on Facebook asked for help ID'ing the frame on a project '67 GTO he had bought. I suggested that he look on the top of the frame behind the driver side wheel for the last 8 of the VIN. That's when this other guy with GTOAA poo-poo'd my recommendation and suggested that there probably wouldn't be any numbers there, claiming he's "done" a dozen or so '67s and none of them had numbers stamped in that location. He then also said even if there were numbers there, they would only allow you to determine if the frame was original to the body, and wouldn't actually tell you what year it was made. On my '66, the frame stamping starts with "6Pxxxxxx". The "6" is for 1966, and the "P" is for Pontiac, MI plant. I assume that '67 frames are the same.

So it sounds like there is a better chance than not that there will be a number stamping in that location, and it will also tell you the year of production. If there isn't a number stamped there, it's an anomaly because someone had a bad day at the plant.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by ZeGermanHam

Good info, thank you. So it sounds like there may be some out there without stampings, but if all went according to plan at the factory the '67 frames should have the last 8 characters of the VIN stamped on them.

This all came about because someone on Facebook asked for help ID'ing the frame on a project '67 GTO he had bought. I suggested that he look on the top of the frame behind the driver side wheel for the last 8 of the VIN. That's when this other guy with GTOAA poo-poo'd my recommendation and suggested that there probably wouldn't be any numbers there, claiming he's "done" a dozen or so '67s and none of them had numbers stamped in that location. He then also said even if there were numbers there, they would only allow you to determine if the frame was original to the body, and wouldn't actually tell you what year it was made. On my '66, the frame stamping starts with "6Pxxxxxx". The "6" is for 1966, and the "P" is for Pontiac, MI plant. I assume that '67 frames are the same.

So it sounds like there is a better chance than not that there will be a number stamping in that location, and it will also tell you the year of production. If there isn't a number stamped there, it's an anomaly because someone had a bad day at the plant.

Absolutely correct, except that there would be several someones having a bad day.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by ZeGermanHam

He then also said even if there were numbers there, they would only allow you to determine if the frame was original to the body, and wouldn't actually tell you what year it was made.

If the frame was original to the body wouldn't that, in fact, tell you what year it was made?

I wouldn't mind knowing the name of this prominent GTOAA person.

K

[ZeGermanHam]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

If the frame was original to the body wouldn't that, in fact, tell you what year it was made?

I wouldn't mind knowing the name of this prominent GTOAA person.

K

The person who initially asked for help ID'ing his frame said that he had purchased his '67 as a project where the previous owner had replaced the original frame because the original had rusted out badly. So this person knew the frame was not original to the body, but he was trying to determine what year the replacement frame was made. That's when I chimed in to recommend checking the 8-character stamping, since the first character in that string is the year of manufacture.

At any rate, I just needed a sanity check to ensure that I was thinking about this stuff correctly, which it seems I have been. I'll keep the name of the other guy private as I'd rather not create a dust-up. He's a regular commenter on a few of the big GTO & Pontiac groups on Facebook.