[Indytransplant]

You seem to be doing well to me. I have a 70 sport convert so far it is driving me nuts. needed a new floor pan, trunk pan, rework of back seat support, rear quarters. in other words just getting started. car sat in a field for 10 years before I got it.
I hope to try and keep track of your progress. We will both get there in time to enjoy the results.

[webfoot]

All DIY car restoration guys have to be at least somewhat masochistic. Hang in there.

[Judas]

Well, I've been on break for a while due to...going out of business. Now the restoration is a race to get the car mobile before the landlord kicks me out. I'll miss having a 1350sq ft garage at my disposal, but it is what it is. This is a result of the injury plus eBay making my online sales dissappear (long story).

So, heres what's going on:

I installed a 1/2 inch aluminium fuel like front to back. Please do not do this; I beg you. When I ordered it, I though "well, with 1/2 inch, I'll have fuel capacity for anything in the future!". Well, in my area you cant get rubber 1/2 fuel hose. So I had to order some. Then I needed to adapt the hose to the fuel pump and gas tank. Basically, a bunch of work that I imposed on myself.

I installed the shifter assembly after cleaning and oiling then I installed the brake and gas pedals. Nothing exciting to report there.

I found a place that sells repro trans lines for 40$. At that price, there is no reason to build my own, so I traded some money for time. I havent installed these yet, but soon. Due to a possible problem with the trans x-member (here: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=752160) I am waiting on this.

I am still not sure what to do about the brake lines. I need to good tool to make the flares, but it is expensive and I'll probably never use it again. I know a few car guys but none have one.

[Judas]

This picture pretty much represents my latest attempt to work on the GTO. I decided to clean out the car and recover all tools because you have to 'reboot' time to time. While doing so, I also removed the dash mock up to work on the wiring. I forgot you have to drop the steering column so it immediately hung up simultaneously scratching up my fresh paint and causing the dash to flex a bit; cracking the control panel bezel (75$ to replace). I also leaned on the metal dash plate when lifting the dash (base of windshield) and buckled it. So I managed to damage 3 seperate parts in just one motion. I wonder if that's a record? I put the dash aside and popped the dash plate back into shape with a hammer + wooden block.

After that glorious start, I installed the front shocks, which actually went fine now that I have the proper hardware, and ditto the accelerator cable. This would be the apex of the day. Then I tried to wire up the starter motor, but I was missing an electrical connector that would fit the main battery post and I was not about to strip the wire and wrap it around; ghetto-style. After that, I attempted to install the transmission cooling tubes. I was not sure if these ran above or below the exhaust headers, but I knew I could not work them in with all the bends. So, I had to remove the header...

Hours later, the header is out (along with a chunk of the exhaust system, the oil filter mounting pad, the trans-filler tube, and the trans-govenor). As an added bonus, one of the exhaust flange nuts (stainless steel) was overtightened, would not loosen, and had to be cut off. No one wastes time like me. Anyhow, I install the lines and find out that it runs "above" and I could probably have avoided removing the header. What was that I said about wasting time?

Now the header will not go back in because the fitment is too tight with the cooling lines and I have to bend the lines anyhow. I finally get the header back in place after endless pushing, pulling, and trying to get it to fit in an area where the clearance could be literrally measured in "sheets of paper thickness". After that, I re-install the trans filler tube, the governor, but need sealant for the oil filter pad and a new nut/bolt for the exhaust. Fun!

[Judas]

Update time!

Well, this outing was the reverse of the last. I was able to get a lot done by inserting a lot or the missing 'puzzle pieces' from last time.

After some pushing and bending, the trans. cooling tubes now clear the header pipes. I checked the fittings on both ends and was glad I did: the radiator ends were loose from all the monkey business. Re-tightened.

Here is something that was totally NOT surprising; I had to pull off the valve cover to get enough room to install the other half of the AC box. In a rare case of me thinking ahead, I spent extra money on high-quality, reusable valve cover gaskets. I'll just have to bolt the cover back on when done- no big deal.

Because installing the complex AC box gaskets are extremely difficult alone, I decided to just use silicone. I did try with the gaskets, but they peeled off even with High-tack before I could assemble. Pretty amazing because high-tack is usually like glue. Anyhow, I ran the bead of silicone and let that set up awhile.

While waiting, I reassembled the exhaust and added 2 clamps I've been missing, so the exhaust is actually complete! At least that's one system down.

Armed with the proper connector, I wired up the starter (soldering all connections) and routed the wires past the headers. Starter installed.

Because I am starting with an all-new kit wiring harness, I took a reference shot of the fuse box then removed all fuses (except ignition). My plan is to bring the electrical system online 1 circuit at a time.

Now that the silicone was firm, I installed the other half of the AC box, and replaced the valve cover. I took a minute to re-route wires in the area as cleanly as possible.

Then I knocked out a list of minor things: I hooked up the HEI, Tach, Oil pressure wire, battery, transmission downshift solenoid, choke hot wire and ignition switch block on steering column. All terminals were soldered; it takes longer but I don't trust crimp connectors. I stay-tied a few groups of wires together to clean up the spaghetti.

I also installed the torque converter dust shield, the oil filter pad, and oil filter. The connector to the half of the ignition switch supplied in the wiring kit was wrong for this car, so I determinalized the block, traced all the wires, and plugged the terminals directly unto the spade connectors.

FINALLY...I 'poked the sleeping giant' and turned the key. The starter operated normally (yay!) but the engine is not ready for operation (no fuel supply).

Left feeling pretty good today!

Here's a few pics. More are in the Facebook album: https://www.facebook.com/mike.barker...3500440&type=3

-J

[Judas]

PS to the last post:

I want to mention that my order of re-assembly might not seem logical for a car that is supposed to be painted (hopefully) at some point.

This is because I am going out of business and losing my shop.

It happens that I live on a very steep hill and will need the car to be mobile to get up to where it needs to go. So mobility is now top priority, even if it means going backward in the future.

[webfoot]

Sorry to hear that. Glad to hear some things have been going right with the car, however.

[Judas]

Its ok. It was a side biz and I still have my 9-5. Basically, it (like myself) never recovered from my shattered knee. Also, ebay gave me the kiss of death by shuffling all my parts listings to the bottom of searches. The reason is: "There is no reason- ebay does it all the time". You can find countless numbers of small businesses on the web that had the same thing happen to them.

[Judas]

Alright, this is post is a little 'after the fact', but here goes. I used my 'free pass' of Father's Day to put in a solid day on the car.

One of the main goals was to install the fuel tank. First, I had to do some welding in the trunk. The floor wasn't finished, and it would be a really bad idea to weld just above the fuel tank later. It wasn't much, but it added delay. Then I spray-bombed the underside of the trunk with some rust-prevent paint. I had to keep stopping due to the fume build-up because I forgot to bring the damn fan (we had a leak in the basement a little while ago and I had taken it home to dry out the floor after I repaired the pipe).

The tank had an extra vent tube on it that I didn't even notice before so I had to go to the parts store and get that plus more clamps (and fuel). There's almost no access once it's installed.

I tried to hook up the shifter cable, but this failed. I can't get the retainer clip back on the cable. My hands are not strong enough and tapping it in is impossible due to 'spring back'. I gave up after the clip sprung out and I couldn't find it. I did put the cable on the arm with a cotter pin, but the cable is just sitting in the holder. I'll have to look at this later.

I tried to hook up the steering column lock linkage, but this failed. A piece is missing; the big, rounded bushing/washer that goes in the holder and butts up to the spring. Guess I'll have to order another.

I also tried to hook up the TH400 electric kick-down solenoid, but this failed: the spade connector is slightly larger than even the big "yellow" female connectors you get at the store. Unsure what to do here as the original is missing (it wasnt hooked up at all, IIRC)

The reason for doing these things were 2: 1. So I could put the car back on the floor and be done with the underside for a while and 2: I wanted to be sure the car was in Park before starting the engine up. No dice. I dropped the car off the stands anyhow since I just don't like a car on stands with an engine running.

Anyhow, after I got the stuff I needed, I installed the tank. It took FOREVER and would have been completely impossible to do alone if I didn't happen to have a motorcycle lift. The tank fits very tightly in frame "box" back there. So tight, you have to actually like "pop" it through the tightest part, where the tank flanges contact the frame rails. The bolts are exactly the right length with no extra, so getting the nuts started was very hard since the straps were acting like springs and pulling against the nuts. A half-inch longer bolt would have made a world of difference. I was cursing often.

I primed the oil pump, primed all other things (plus a nice spill of anti-freeze because the radiator drain-cock was open), and got a whole lotta nothing for my work. The starter spins, but nothing else in the electrical system does anything. I thought it was because I had the master switch off, but nope.

Guess I'll have a nice electrical puzzle to solve next time. Obviously, with such a major problem, I am thinking something is wrong at the ignition switch.

Till next time...

[Greg Reid]

Anyone who has never restored a car but has one under a tarp in the back yard that he's "gonna fix up one day with my 4 year old son when he's 16" ought to read this thread.
Keep the faith Judas...You're getting there. Been working on mine forever too.

[Judas]

Thanks man! Sometimes I think I am going for the guiness record for "World's Longest Restoration". I also think that the non-pros who can restore a car in less than 2 years must have "nothing else going on" in terms of hobbies and *very understanding wives/GFs.

I am actually 'done' with trying to make the car perfect. Things that I restored at the beginning aren't even perfect anymore due to the passage of time. Also, I've had some disasters that would make the car 'not perfect' anyhow, such as the leaking break fluid that stripped off the frame paint. I refuse to pull the body and repaint it. In some ways, it's kind of liberating...

[rolling money pits]

Originally Posted by Judas

Thanks man! Sometimes I think I am going for the guiness record for "World's Longest Restoration".

while im sure many could opine with more....

my first "restoration" i put a wrench to in march of 1993. yes, i was out in the snow having at it.

my second "restoration", since im a sadist, started in february of 2005.

one car is a painted shell, three states away. the other, newer, is sitting in my garage stripped of all but the victor with mickey clutched in it.

in other words, keep up the good fight!

[Judas]

I'll have more to post tomorrow, but for tonight, one word will suffice:

IGNITION!!

Wooooooo!!!

http://youtu.be/sfDDOSMjlHs

[Greg Reid]

Very nice. Idle and throttle response sounds good.

[Judas]

Thanks! I am glad to hear that since the idle, fuel/air mix, and timing were all guesses. The timing light in the vid turned out to be broken (it's very old) so I had to go 'by ear'.

Overall, the engine "wanted to start" the whole time. I think anyone thats been spinning wrenches knows what I mean. Sometimes, an engine just don't seem like it wants to run- this was the opposite.

I am gonna 'press the rewind button' and take it from the top:

When I got to the shop, I had a photo-copied and annotated OE wiring diagram. Also, I had the original ignition switch connector and plenty of wire harvested from the original wiring harness. I compared the diagram to the schematic of the Kwik-Wire kit and found that, while I had wired the ignition switch to their specs, there was no way it was going to work. I guess they based their wiring on some other GM car, although physically, their layout of the switch's pins was very similar.

What I ended up doing was reusing the original connector with a hybrid of inserting the Kwik-Wire terminals and some original terminals with new wires spliced in/soldered. I plugged it in, connected the battery, and gave it a try- nothing but cranking. I got out the timing light and it showed no spark (this was both true and a red-herring: I didnt have spark, but the timing light was also broken).

I took the coil's dust cover off and found no juice at the positive lead. That's when I noticed that I had it disconnected from my last outing. I checked the wire and it was hot...then it slipped out of my hand, touched the master cylinder, and blew the fuse. <headslap>. It was a 30A fuse, so I just pulled the same fuse from the heating/AC to use *after connecting the wire. I tried again, but the timing light showed now spark. I have an old Accel coil sitting on the shelf and considered installing it, but something told me not to trust the timing light, so I continued onward.

Knowing the fuel system is bone dry, I poured about a tablespoon of fresh fuel down the carb throat and gave it a go, immediately getting hits (and confirming my hunch the TL was not working). I did this a few times (also used a tiny amount of ether) but wasnt getting full start. I tried advancing the timing, but nothing other than hits, also tried playing with the idle a little as well as the choke. I noticed that the inline fuel filter was not filling up as well as dripping fuel from the body. It was loose, so 'fixed'. I also decided to break the fuel line at the filter and filled the carb directly with a gas can (can be seen in the vid gravity feeding from atop the AC box), and route the fuel feed into a second gas can till I get pressure.

Now the engine will "run on the starter" but immediately stall after. I put the timing back to TDC, but recalled that Pontiacs (well, this one) likes "before" timing, so I retarded it a little. BINGO- started right on the key and ran perfectly till the carb went dry. Much "Enzyte man" style grinning.

Looking things over while running, I never got pressure in the filter. A little came up then would go right back down the line. So, thinking the Fuel pump is no good. Also, the thermostat housing is p--sing out the side at the manifold and needs a new gasket; small potatoes.

I refilled the carb and it fired right back up so I shot the vid. Coolant is leaking and steaming, but I don't care.

All in all, having secured victory, I stopped right there and went home in a very good mood.

-J

[webfoot]

FYI - putting it to BTDC is actually advancing the spark, ATDC is retarding.. so the reason it wouldn't start before is due to timing being too retarded.

[Judas]

True. Guess I was thinking in terms of dist. placement vs when the spark would actually occur. Anyhow...

onward!

-J

[Judas]

Over the weekend, I got a half-day in, but it was wholly disasterous. Also, I got some time in during the week. I'll cover it all in one post.

First I replaced the thermostat housing gasket with no issues, and put everything related back together. The I went to replace the fuel pump and discovered that, while the pump is identical, the bolt holes are too small(?). Anyhow, I quickly drilled larger holes using the old ones as pilot holes. Between tension from the fuel-pump eccentric and the lack of access, getting the rear bolt in the pump was time consuming and difficult. I finally realized this is one case where heavily tightening one bolt makes the other easier to start. After putting everything back together, I still had no fuel pressure.

I decide to take a break from this, and worked on fashioning a new brake line from a pre-fab one (the new copper alloy lines). This is the "feed" from the Master to the splitter for the calipers. After bending it into shape (using the old one as a guide), I realized the fitting is a step smaller and will not work. The quest for an adapter begins. I left feeling unhappy.

The next day at the shop, I unhooked the fuel line from the pump and blew into it (let the Puns begin!). I heard a whisting sound from the back of the car. I wrapped a piece of thin plastic from a shopping bag around the union of the line and the fuel tank pickup then blew again to see if I could hear the bag crinkle or move. nothing. I plugged up the vapor return line at the tank, the vent, the neck vent, and put on the cap then tried again. Now I have back pressure. Even though I have some 4 gallons of fuel in the tank, it seems like the fuel is below the pick-up. Bad tolerances from China? Unsure I go to the gas station and get 5 more gallons of fuel.

I put virtually all of it into the tank then try blowing again and get the whistling sound again. I am really confused now and repeat the process. Same deal. I put the cap on the tank and try again; now I hear bubbling...but it doesnt stop after I do. Realizing whats about to happen, I move aside just as fuel starts pouring out of the hose, then plug it up to the pump. Problem solved, but I cannot explain what actually happened. Feel free to explain if you do.

I start the car on gravity feed just to be sure the pump is pumping, and see fuel gushing past the in-line filter into a catch-can. I hook the pump up and get my timing light ready. So, I start the car and within about 20 seconds, it stalls and won't even hit anymore.

I thought maybe it was the coil, but after a lengthy diagnosis, it turns out the engine is now flooding with raw fuel. Further, it appears the pressure of the fuel pump has created this condition where the gravity feed did not. Switching it back and 'clearing it out', the car runs very, very poorly so I shut down as I know what to expect (and don't want to wash out the cylinders): the plugs are wet with gas. Apparently, the pump "discovered" a problem with the carb. I hope it's just a float.

Quite unhappy now, I turn my attention to the brake line problem. I couldn't find the adapter I needed so plan B is cut off the small fitting and hope I can make a decent flare with my crap tool vs. the softer copper alloy. However, I cannot find the tubing cutter. Since I almost never use it, I cannot believe it's missing. I spend the next hour cleaning the shop and searching for it- not found.

I decide to leave in disgust. At home, I have 2 large, powerful margaritas (fresh lime, Patron, and triplesec only), and try to forget the morning happened.

Till next time...

[Judas]

I went to the shop today and removed the carb. Its an Edlebrock 140x (I dont really remember- its a 750 elec. choke). I took it appart and checked/cleaned everything. Everything looked brand new because the last time I ran it years ago, I ran it until it was dry and the engine stalled.

So I pretended it was dirty and cleaned everything anyhow, blowing through the circuits with compressed air/carb cleaner, etc. I took the floats out and tossed them in a pail full of parts cleaner- they floated for 15 mins with no issues. I checked the clearance and everything is fine. I put it all back together, and put it back on the car.

I replaced the gas-fouled plugs with brand new ones and it started right up...then flooded again seconds later.

This is a catastrophe. The carb is defective somehow (I had this same problem in 2007, but attributed it to a stuck float) I have to get out of the shop, and a roll-back cannot get up the steep slope to my house. The car refuses to go, so it will now have to be dumped on the street with a cover till the county tags it for towing.

Maybe this is where this story ends.

[Greg Reid]

Would it be possible to borrow a carb just long enough to move the car?