[Judas]

Dont know anyone that has one. A friend of mind does racing, not amature but not pro either, stuff in the 1000hp range. I thought it anyone had one, or knows of one, he would be the guy.

However, it seems that everyone in that group he knows is now running fuel injection and some kind of blower/turbo. He said he might be able to dig up a Holley Dominator, but I don't have an adapter plate and don't think that would work anyhow.

-J

[Judas]

Ok, its been a while so heres an update. Its a long one, but if you've been reading along you already know I do a small number of large updates.

PART I:

I gave up on the Edlebrock carb, at least for now. I got to thinking that for this operation, all I need is a carb, really any OEM carb that worked and would bolt up.

I went to the "U-pick/U-pull" looking for one. The guy at the gate was not encouraging but said "There might be and old truck or something back there..." Most everything was from the late 80's onward, but I found a 66 Ford Galaxy 500 with a 2 barrel carb. It was the one that looks like a 4 barrel and would bolt up. The unit was covered in sludge and corrosion. I noted it, but moved on. About an hour later and nothing else found, it started to sound a lot more enticing.

I began to head back, but noticed a row of old delivery vans. I thought "A lot of those used to come with big V8's back in the day. I wonder if anyone thinks to check these?" I guess not- on the third one, much to my shock, was a nice looking, aftermarket Holley that someone bolted onto a big block Ford. I almost ran back to fetch my toolbox. When I got up to the gate to pay for it, the older guy that appeared to be the owner exclaimed "Where did you find that?!" Carburetors were listed on their site at 20$, but this one was suddenly 35$. I took it anyway and also got a Mr. Gasker 1in aluminum spacer plate in the deal. Junkyard Jackpot!

I cracked it open and did a full rebuild. It looked very, very nice on the inside and the only problem was getting the concrete-hard gaskets to release. I used a thin, wide scraper and slowly wedged the metering block/plates free.

After rebuild/reinstall I got: massive flooding. So much raw gas pouring into the secondary venturis I thought it was going to overflow. The base setting was a ‘little off’. After much fiddling with the float, I got it 'dry', but the primary was still flooding somewhat. I got it to run, but terribly and was gas fouling.

Adjusting the float did nothing, so I reluctantly took the primary bowl off. Everything looked fine, but for some reason (maybe the Gods took mercy on me) I decided to remove the power valve. At this point, I found the gasket they supplied me was actually 2 gaskets doubled up perfectly. I could see gas was leaking past them too. I removed one and replaced it.

I replaced the float bowl and naturally forgot to set the accelerator pump arm, so I got to repeat the remove/replace process. And quite unsurprisingly, during this process managed to pinch one of the fuel rail o-rings so it leaked more fuel.

After a trip to the McParts, and 8$ spent on an O-ring assortment for the 5-cent O-ring I needed, I removed/replaced the float bowl for a 3rd time. "Are we having fun yet?"

Finally, after getting it together, I got it started but the car barely ran, stalling and wont idle. After checking for gas fouled plugs and finding none I was perplexed. I ran it some more to get a little heat and had just enough time to shine the timing light in before another stall- the timing was way past TDC. I’d guess 12-degrees or more (the timing tab stops at TDC). The timing had been bumped off somehow. Pulling back the timing the engine instantly came to life and smoothed out. I set the timing at 9 BTDC. I set the idle speed at 1050 with a hand-held tach.

At this point, I stopped everything and changed the oil. OMG I am glad I did. What came out had the consistency of water and reeked of gas. Running the engine for any amount of time on this stuff would have been DEATH.

[Judas]

PART II:

Now we have ‘power’, but not mobility. At least ‘safe mobility’. The next step was to address the endlessly leaking brakes.

I got some of the new copper alloy lines from McParts and tried to flare them with my cheapo flaring tool. The theory was the very soft alloy might ‘work’ a little better. The fitting at the MC held, and I was able to get lenths such that I could use the pre-fab fittings in all other locations. I bled the brakes with a vac pump and buttoned it up. This was only the front circuit btw; I am not going for a drive, just getting it up on a trailer.

This was the end of the day, so I then summoned my brother and his big car carrier for the next trip. As we drove up, I warned him that “neither the brakes or the trans has been tested”. We got there, fired it up, put it in gear and…nothing. Although I had filled the pan, the trans had pumped dry. A trip to wal-mark ensued for 2 more gallons of fluid. Another gallon and I got engagement. To my surprise, the brakes held too so I didn’t drive across the alley into a warehouse. (I had my brother film me driving out just in case that very thing happened. Or the car burst into flames. Or the crank flew out the bottom of the engine. Etc)

We loaded it up, drove it home, and it had no problem getting up the hill into the car port. Which is both good and bad at the same time because now I am back to working in the elements.

Now, I’ve packed up everything and moved it back home. There will be a long break while I get the garage setup and re-organized.

I’ve fired it up a few times here and there to show off and it starts right on the key. Idles a little rough though till it warms up- the choke def. needs adjustment. Good stuff though!

Next up is sorting out the rear brakes and making it 100% safe.

-J

[salem1912]

Keep up the good work Judas,sometimes a long break is what you need. Helps you "refocus" on the whole project rather than the one or two items your currently fighting.

[Judas]

Thanks for the words!

Well, things pretty much have gone to plan. It took me a long time to really clean up, and clean out, my garage and make it as good as possible. I bought a quality car cover for the GTO in the meantime. I refused to add to the sea of chaos in the garage.

Thats done now so its back to the grind. First, during one of my routine fire-ups, the Holley started leaking yet again, this time it's the front fuel-rail O-ring. I have to say, I think these carburetors are poorly designed with so many potential leaks. Although I will say my friend cheered me up a bit by saying "At least its a 10 cent part." The blower pulley on his race car just broke off and bounced around the engine bay, doing 1300$ worth of damage to an assortment of systems. Anyhow, I have to get the O-ring so this is on hold.

I looked into the mystery of the gushing adjustable proportioning valve and found that the line-nuts are not quite long enough to seat, which explains the problem. Not to be fixed easily, one stripped off and necessitated removing the whole valve to extract the nut. That came off once I had it in the vise and tapped a socked on. This is now on hold till I get the longer line nuts.

The pass. side wheel well was installed. This had been on hold for a long time due to a crack at one of the front mounting holes. I had welded it up previously but not gotten to doing it.

I decided to do some metalwork and repaired the driver's fender between the wheel-well and door. It was a typical repair for this kind of work. My only complaint is the patch is lacking. Its too wide so the door edge is not correct and will have to be ground down and welded to blend it in. Also, the lip behind that edge is completely different from the OEM one in shape, so I'll have to bring them together somehow. Forgot to mention that I also laid out and drilled the holes for the GTO emblem (this is a lemans fender- mine was rusted into oblivion). The fender is about 90% done. All I have to do is smooth the bead in the wheel-well, and fix the door edge then it will be ready to go.

Heres a few pics of the repair.

[webfoot]

Looks like you used the uncoated lower fender piece? That's what I used, and I agree, those were garbage. If I had to do it again, I'd try the EDP coated ones. None of that stuff I got that was bare steel fit very good, other than the outer wheelhouse patch.

Do I remember right, you have a 68 with rally gauges? Maybe you can help me figure out how to wire this up correctly. I have a new thread in the electrical section about this.

[Judas]

I'd be glad to help, but mine is a 69. Is that similar?

PS: Yes, it was the bare metal patch. These have been on my shelf so long, they actually have go surface rust on them. It almost seemed like it would fit better with the patch on top, and the fender flanged, but the OEM brace didnt have enough clearance for the panel-flanger.

-J

[webfoot]

Originally Posted by Judas

I'd be glad to help, but mine is a 69. Is that similar?

Should be the same. Thanks.

[Judas]

Not much new to report. I've been busy lately.

Ok, I fixed the O-ring and for the moment, the carb is not leaking. Ran the car and all was well after the carb re-primed.

Installed new brake lines with premade flares. No effect. I've spent well over 20 hours on the leaking problems with no progress at all. I incrementally tightened one of the fittings till I stripped the head off the line nut with a line-wrench...and its still leaking. I really don't know what to make of it. I can only guess the adjustable proportioning valve was made by our friends in Beijing with 'liberal tolerances'. I guess I'll have to procure another.

I just noticed it's been 5 years since I started this thread. I wonder how many more decades I have to go?

[Greg Reid]

Just remember that when you're troubleshooting a problem, every attempt that doesn't work is still progress and getting you closer to the solution. It's a process of elimination and you've just eliminated one more possibility.
Don't get discouraged. Just try to enjoy the journey as much as the destination. I've been working on mine for 10 years and have complained about that from time to time....but truth be known, I enjoyed every minute of it.

[Judas]

Thanks for the encouragement. It just sucks to be halted on what is a relatively simple problems. And the battle rages on and on:

I took off the proportioning valve and inspected it closely. Deep in the holes (and I do mean deep- its for the 'long fittings') I see "bowls" instead of "cones" - this valve is made for bubble fittings. I must say a curse to 'Right Stuff' for selling me a valve not intended for these cars without adapters or mentioning that I might need such adapters. Also, as expected, I had stripped the threads.

I ordered a new valve from Jegs and began assembling the driver's door. Not surprising at all that, at every juncture where there was a slight chance of something going wrong, it did. 50-50 guesses (left or right? Front or back? Is X first or Y?) ALL went against me and this took probably about 3 times longer than it should have. I have the regulator and all slides installed but stopped because I am at a point where I don't know what to do next.

I have some kind of lined 'guide plates' that dont show up in the Fisher Body Manual on any diagram. I also have the strips that need replacing. Finally, I also don't have the door-window weatherstrip and dont know if I should/could install the glass THEN the weatherstrip (anyone?).

This is on hold.

{later}
The new brake valve arrived and after manufacturing a bracket from steel stock, installed it on the car. Now the front line (feed to rear brakes) is about 2mm too short and wont reach properly. I kinked the line trying to force it so there is pressure up front and none in the back. I am now in the area of 40 hours on this sub-project alone, and yet no brakes.

I'll have to go get the next length of tube which will of course, be way too long since I was only a few millimeters short before. Maybe I'll try bending the slack into some modern-art impression?

[webfoot]

Any chance of posting a pic of the lined guide plates? I'm assuming you are referring to some of the window guides.

You talking about the window felts? yes, those can be installed after the glass is in. It would actually be difficult to do it before the glass was installed.

[Judas]

Originally Posted by webfoot

Any chance of posting a pic of the lined guide plates? I'm assuming you are referring to some of the window guides.

You talking about the window felts? yes, those can be installed after the glass is in. It would actually be difficult to do it before the glass was installed.

The felts are, I guess the things that look like brushes. The "Plates" are these squares of sheet metal with a coating on them the looks like carbon-fiber, but is probably some kind of plastic. Our host doesnt sell them, but does sell a kit to re-line them. I'll see about getting a pic. The repop door does have holes to attach them so it must not be some kind of wacky, rare piece.

Can the main weather strip at the top of the door be installed after the glass?

[Judas]

Oops, forgot about the picture, sorry.

Updates:
I cleaned up the driver's glass and installed it into the door. I know I am running the risk of having to re-do it because I don't know the order of installation concerning the glass, upper-weather-strip, and the mysterious guide plates. However, I needed room in my little garage and after this, I was able to install the door on the car. Of course I was not able to get it aligned at all working alone, so I don't know how to proceed there. It tends to get stuck in the closed position.

Meanwhile, the front O-ring on the Holley failed again, this time gushing fuel. I replaced it again for the 4th(5th?) time. It appears to be holding for the moment but I guess I should carry spares for when it blows again. Because of this on-going fiasco, I dismantled my 750cfm Edlebrock and tried to find out why it floods like mad. I took the upper float plate off, gently held them closed, and blew into the fuel inlet with a hose. They sealed fine, although a human can only produce about 2 psi. I also filled it the carb with water with the top off looking for leaks- nothing. I dumped the water and blew out the carb with air. No idea what to do here.

While the o-ring was holding, I ran the car a bit. Unhappy with how it idles. It revs instantly and smoothly, but the idle is bad and it even loaded up and stalled once. Could be due to the un-adjusted choke and fuel/air mixture so I am not alarmed...yet.

I got the longer brake tube and installed that. After tightening up the fittings, I bled them with a vac pump, but wasnt happy with the results- weak and spongy. I had my wife come up and bled them 'ye olde fashioned way' and now I have strong, positive, pressure. I fired up the car and tried them out, but the car no longer moves- the trans has failed for some reason. At this point, things like this don't even cause me to blink an eye anymore.

{next day}
I went back to working on the glass. First I made a spanner wrench to remove the broken roller from one of the quarter glass pieces. I used two nut+bolt combos for the lugs and bolted them to some stock flat steel (after measuring/drilling holes). It worked pretty well, although one lug was a hair off and I had to grind off the bolt threads. After installing the roller, and studying the fisher manual, I installed the driver side quarter glass. I haven't mentioned it, but I oil and grease all slides, mechanisms, and so on, of course.

This is another one of those things were an outside observer would scratch their head because the order is illogical (the driver's quarter is still off the car). But, it frees up shelf space in the garage as glass pieces are 'space hogs'. Also, I won't lie- it IS easier when you can reach past where the quarter should be to help guide the glass. I'll be sure to cover the glass if I have to cut or weld steel in that area.

Thats all for now. Tune in later for next session of "Three Stooges (Rolled into 1) Build A Car"

[2002Z4CSS]

The trans may have leakes fluid from sitting when the torque convertor drains back and the trans pan now has more fluid that normal. Might be leaking from the dip stick tube o-ring. This kind of leak seems common on an older car that sat a long time.

[Judas]

Update time.

Its been bitterly cold out here so I haven't been out in a few weeks. I was going to do some stuff last weekend but the cold overwhelmed even my garage's space heater.

Before the chill set in, I got the following done. No pics because I keep forgetting the camera.

I know now that I had improperly (partially) installed the passenger quarter glass in the past, so I removed it, prepped it, and installed as the driver's side. No real problems there.

I did the finishing work on the driver's fender- grinding and painting with primer, then set it in place on the car. I put a few bolts in to hold it, but didnt do a full install because the door is not situated yet. This was another case of 'making room in the garage' more than getting something perfect.

I got the passenger door up on the bench for inspection. It is a mess- the entire front, lower corner is rusted out, there are a pair of dime-sized bubbles on the outer skin, and a big hole at the lower rear corner. Significant rust is all along the lower edge near the skin fold over. I would guess it would take me around 40 hours to repair this as an amateur. This restoration being an admitted failure at this point, I decided to reassemble it, attach it 'as is' (to make room in garage) and put 'new door' on my future shopping list.

Finally, I ran the engine again and noticed it is markedly worse- no it no longer idles at all, but will start and rev freely. At least it isn't leaking fuel...for now.

Till next time. (March?)

[Judas]

So we had a brief glimpse of Spring here and had a few warm days...today it is snowing again. >.<

Anyhow, I was able to get to the scrap yard and fix a nagging problem. The TH400 in my car had an aftermarket, chrome pan with a drain plug. Sounds cool, but it was one of the ultra-cheap, super-thin versions and always dripped trans-fluid from a crack at the plug hole. Luckily for me, this scrap yard had a bunch of piles of transmissions by manufacturer already out and loose. In the GM pile, I found several TH400's, but the pans on most of them were mangled by indifferent handling by the yard. The 3rd one I checked looked considerably newer/cleaner and had a "Rebuilt by AC-Delco" sticker on it. Maybe because of this, the pan looked like it was handled with care- it was perfect. I took it (and it's modern, reusable gasket) home. Install was no problem and while under there noticed that I failed to tighten one of the collector nut+bolt combos completely. That explains the audible exhaust leak. I tightened that as well.

Filled the trans and fired it up. It was solid and grabby. I tested it against the fresh brakes and both systems worked well. The exhaust leak is still heard but quieter. The gasket is, of course, blown but thats small potatoes.

Next up is the passenger fender, hood supports, and wiper motor/arms.

-J

[Greg Reid]

Every step gets you a bit closer.

[Judas]

Indeed! Thanks for the encouragement.

Unfortunately, I have more bad news. The Holley has failed again and the engine no longer runs due to flooding. I double checked the fuel level and it is fine. So, I adjusted the float all the way down so there is so little fuel in the bowl, you can't even get it to slosh out of the site hole by rocking the car.

It is still flooding. I must assume the power-valve or accelerator pump is leaking internally.

Meanwhile, I started looking over the dash. It has a bunch of problems- the plastic control plates are cracked and broken, there is a massive crack in the top of the padding (AC vent area), the printed circuit was destroyed (guilty!- I gouged it with a screwdriver prying out the plug 10 years ago) and the chrome is badly flaked off the vents.

I took the vents out, sanded them lightly, tapped off, and repainted them with a silver-metallic paint. No, its not chrome, but it dosent look half bad honestly. Since most everything else concerning the dash requires parts, I put this aside for now.

On to the passenger fender. This fender is original to the car and I patched the typical, low-rust out area behind the wheel years ago. However, it has the cornering lights option and the other fender does not. Personally, I don't care for the cornering lights so I cut a patch and began stitch welding it in place.

Last Saturday, I went to Carlisle and spent some money with our new hosts. I have the new repop trunk lid (type 2 "with spolier") and dash cover. Also, while wandering the grounds, found a person selling a new headliner, still in the box, for a 69 and its in black- perfect. I got that for half-new price!

Now, to get this stuff assembled. As for the flooded engine...no clue what to do anymore. Its like I can chose- do I prefer flooding my engine with a new carb that is defective, or an old one that's also defective?

[danpaul]

For you flooding problems, you might post your symptoms over in the street section. There are some very sharp guys over there who can help. Or if you have an extra 6 or 700 bucks laying around, you can have Cliff build you a Qjet that will make you very happy. Don't believe all the stories that Cliff has a 6 month waiting list. Call him and ask. Also, if it makes you feel any better, I started my resto in 2005 and still not driving it yet.