[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Jeffs64Cat

Ok guys here’s my next problem. I’ve wet sanded to trizac 3000. Started buffing with Norton’s ice system. When I used the wool pads I’m still seeing scratches and haze when I’m done with two times in each area. Do I need to keep going or I’m I doing something wrong?

Not familiar with the products either.
But some info -

I finish with 1200-1500 as mentioned.
2 passes with a firm foam pad and "compound" and she's totally done - for that stage.

Generally the wool buffing pads are most aggressive and generate more heat.
Plus the fuzz from them is hateful stuff while getting broken in from new.
rarely use them since foam pads came about.

So possibly the following -

1. Your wool pad is one of the real extra fine finishing pads (not a buffing pad)

2. Your "compound" is of an old nature/formulation like from lacquer days.
It doesn't work worth a shet on urethane - if it is.

3. You didn't spend enough time with each successive grit to get the initial or previous grits sanded out enough.

When BC/CC came out in early'ish/mid'ish 80's - we finished with 1000 grit
So ... let that be a reference.

The BEST compound on urethanes is a synthetic in pink or blue.
No grit whatsoever.
Harder to find on local shelves and only available in gallons.

As a test - go to Walmart - buy 2 bottles of Turtle Wax compound about $5-6 each.
One is Black Cap strong-medium, one is White Cap medium-light.
They work excellent as a urethane compound / swirl remover.

That will tell you if you have a "compound" problem.
Try your stiffest foam pad to start with.

[Jeffs64Cat]

Ok here’s what I did. Got the turtle wax black cap. Still no change. But did find out that the new Eastwood buffer isn’t running at the proper speed according to the dial setting. Any pressure on the head and it’ll stop turning so I think I wasn’t spinning fast enough. Called Eastwood about my problem and they said it’s the buffer. Sending a new one. Wool pad is the heavy cut.

I did keep using the buffer just at a different dial setting. With better results. The hood I resanded and with more attention to each process of the different grits. The front fender is done with all three steps. See the pictures

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Thats good that you narrowed it down.
A good electric buffer shouldn't bog hardly any noticeable amount at 1800-2000 rpms.

I compound with a firm foam pad.
Come back with quick compound on a medium pad.
Sponge bath panels to remove compound residue.
Wipe out cracks/jambs.
Then soft pad with a machine glaze/swirl remover at about 1500-1700 rpm

Hand polish

[MUSLCAH]

Did you buy another buffer ,besides that “Rotary “ buffer ? Cuz ..your gonna need a Dual Action Buffer too.....

[Jeffs64Cat]

Originally Posted by MUSLCAH

Did you buy another buffer ,besides that “Rotary “ buffer ? Cuz ..your gonna need a Dual Action Buffer too.....

Mike, should I be using the dual action instead of the rotary?

[MUSLCAH]

Originally Posted by Jeffs64Cat

Mike, should I be using the dual action instead of the rotary?

You need both. The Rotary buffer is used for removing all the sanding scratches and bringing out the shine. The dual action polisher is a final buffer...to remove all the swirl marks made by the rotary buffer. I use the same fast cut compound with the DA polisher for the first pass...then switch pads on the DA polisher and apply Meguires Red correction compound.....massive gloss !!!!

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

No intention of contradicting ,
But if you're only doing this one paint job - you can use the rotary for everything.
It's all i have ever used .

Wouldn't be surprised if the dual act has some type of benefit in overall time/effort maybe.

Depends what you want to spend/buy - is why i mention it.

Your All-in-One compound might not make the grade as a final glaze / swirl remover.
But time will tell.
The white cap turtle will work.
Or using whatever your hand finish polish choice is - may also work.

In the beginning of BC/CC when lacquer compounds were basically useless-
I used Meguires #3 as a "compound" - which was actually a machine glaze.
Worked better than anything else , At That Time.

[MUSLCAH]

I use Meguires #100 for buffing...it’s blue in color...and find it to be the best. It wipes out of jams wicked easy, and you don’t use a ton of product either. I forgot how many different compounds I have used Since the 70’s.....But that Dual Action buffer was a God Send for removing swirl marks...especially on dark colors. All we had “back in the day” to remove swirl marks with a rotary buffer was the soft pad and a product called “ Liquid Ebony” ....iam sure all you old farts remember that stuff......and after a couple washings ...your swirl marks would be back.

[cabhop]

Kevin Tetz uses the Norton Ice system, maybe a quick review of his buffing videos with the system would help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgZRo_u9HUA


Or for entertainment purposes- Pete at DIY Auto school

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD_u0Ffgaq0&t=341s

[400 4spd.]

Originally Posted by MUSLCAH

I use Meguires #100 for buffing...it’s blue in color...and find it to be the best. It wipes out of jams wicked easy, and you don’t use a ton of product either. I forgot how many different compounds I have used Since the 70’s.....But that Dual Action buffer was a God Send for removing swirl marks...especially on dark colors. All we had “back in the day” to remove swirl marks with a rotary buffer was the soft pad and a product called “ Liquid Ebony” ....iam sure all you old farts remember that stuff......and after a couple washings ...your swirl marks would be back.

Yeah, in those days we hid swirl marks. Today you can remove them.

[dhutton]

Give the Chemical Guys compounds a try. You will not be disappointed.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chemical-Gu...UAAMXQysxR9vP7

Don

[cabhop]

Originally Posted by Jeffs64Cat

Ok here’s what I did. Got the turtle wax black cap. Still no change. But did find out that the new Eastwood buffer isn’t running at the proper speed according to the dial setting. Any pressure on the head and it’ll stop turning so I think I wasn’t spinning fast enough. Called Eastwood about my problem and they said it’s the buffer. Sending a new one. Wool pad is the heavy cut.

I did keep using the buffer just at a different dial setting. With better results. The hood I resanded and with more attention to each process of the different grits. The front fender is done with all three steps. See the pictures

Looks great !!! Most enthusiasts who attempt paint and body themselves never get to a color coat. Take a look at all of the craigslist adds and see all of the project cars missing their rear quarter panels complements of the owners attempt at autobody and paint LOL.

[Jeffs64Cat]

What an adventure. Well it’s all buffed and polished. With the help of people here and the suggestions.

I found out that Norton’s liquid ice compound wasn’t doing it’s job. Talked to Eastwood about it and with the buffer being bad it’s been fun. They refunded my purchase funds. I used Turtle wax rubbing compound with the wool pad. It started cutting but had a problems with scratches so re wet sanded per Baron. Cut it again then buffed with my blue buffing pad with Turtle wax scratches and swirl remover. Then polished with the white polishing pad and Turtle wax scratch and swirl remover.

Now I have to hand polish. Then wait 30 days from day I painted to wax it.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Its really looking good and you have a lot to be proud of.
That is a big canvas and can imagine the labor it has involved.

The battle is over now.
Would still come back over it with the White Cap Turtle and your finest polishing pad.
The Black Cap is Heavy , The White Cap is Light
Even though both are named about the same for marketing strategy.

Then a high quality hand polish.

Everyone here likely uses something different and suggestions will be numerous on finish polishes.

I found a product many years ago that has stayed the same without being "modified" or "improved" or re-named or watered down or discontinued for the past 25 years.
Works incredible and is extra friendly. aka Perfect Product

Very high end made in Germany without compromise.
Not too awful expensive.
Klasse , All-In-One
Can be used as machine glaze/swirl remover - or hand polish - or both.
About $25 a Pint on eBay delivered.
Larger sizes become cheaper , a Pint will put about 15-20 hand coats on the Bonne.

Would not use any wax or sealant for about 6 months.
Just the All-In-One
Its a very slick finish - like the stuff Chevy Chase put on the snow sled.
Really wouldnt use a wax ever , by me.
Only would if it were a factory-baked finish.

After 6 months - would use the Klasse Sealant (different product than All-In-One)
That is optional , just what i would do.
Liquid Glass is another great sealant - but has doubled in price lately.

I used to get disgusted with products that would all of a sudden have a change in performance/results or become discontinued or "new & improved" something something better than before. And its junk

4" foam hand applicator makes polish go a lot farther.
Light pressure just enough to keep it in control.
Rags, cloths, terry-fiber, micro-fiber , just absorbs and wastes polish.

[400 4spd.]

It looks very nice, you did a great job!
If I can offer another tip or two, here is what I suggest. Per my PPG regional rep, I advise 120 days before waxing. I don't remember what brand of product you used, but regardless I say 6 months before wax. That gives sufficient time for cure through. If you cap over (wax) a finish that's not cured, you can see resulting (solvent related) problems in the finish a year or so from now.
Secondly, if you want to be certain that you have zero haze or sand scratches in your buffed panel, take a spritz bottle with a 50/50 mix of rubbing alcohol and water and spray the buffed surface with a fine mist. Then wipe dry with a clean micro fiber cloth.
This step removes any compound or glaze that is filling/hiding a haze or sand scratches.
Once you get it slick enough that the sprayed and wiped surface is what you're after, you are set. That's why we don't use glaze in my shop. Glaze fills and hides surface flaws. After it's washed a couple of times that glaze is gone and the problem is obvious.
And one last tid-bit. That 50/50 mix I mentioned and a microfiber towel is great for breaking loose dried white compound that gets in jambs and panel edges.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

a Pint will put about 15-20 hand coats on the Bonne.

On second thought that Bonne is awful huge - lets make that 10-12 hand coats. lol


the Turtle Wax compounds are something i stumbled on in a pinch.
They work great , cost is cheap , come in smaller quantities , available at Walmart and Advance Auto Parts.
Perfect for anyone on a small scale. (1 car or multiple small projects)

Works great on new and old paint
Plastic headlights
Windshields
yada yada yada
by Hand or Machine

Black Cap = Heavy
White Cap = Light (or as follow up after Black Cap)

never underestimate its use - especially if you also have a 3" buffing pad for smaller things.

[Jeffs64Cat]

I ordered the Klasse All in one. It should be here tomorrow. I’ve been down with the stomach virus. Must have picked it up when I went to town to get the turtle wax polish the other day.

Is it better to straight line hand polish or is the circle the best? Many different views out there.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Did you stop at 7-11 for any cheezy-chili-jalapeno Nachos along the way ?

On Black - you often HAVE to do straight line methodical.

Most Non-Dark colors can be done circular without any noticeable effects.
Its easier and quicker to me.
Might want to do a sample area.

After 1 or 2 coats of Klasse
sort of scoot/slide a wypall towelette across hood - it should fly all the way down the hood and hit the floor on its own momentum.

Knuckle drag test is a good baseline to start with too.
Then you'll know when you really should put on another coat later down the road.
knuckle drag

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Was at Walmart today , in the auto section.
Turtle Wax did make changes to the packaging-

The ALL BLACK bottle with Black Cap - is the Polishing Compound (light action)

The Green bottle with Black Cap - is the Rubbing Compound (heavier action)



The Polishing Compound used to be in the same Green Bottle - but with a White Cap.
The bottles were identical - just a White Cap or Black Cap.
And the labels were different of course - one for rubbing , one for polishing.

So you were probably using the Polishing Compound
No biggie - but the Rubbing Compound would have cut a little faster.

[Jeffs64Cat]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Was at Walmart today , in the auto section.
Turtle Wax did make changes to the packaging-

The ALL BLACK bottle with Black Cap - is the Polishing Compound (light action)

The Green bottle with Black Cap - is the Rubbing Compound (heavier action)



The Polishing Compound used to be in the same Green Bottle - but with a White Cap.
The bottles were identical - just a White Cap or Black Cap.
And the labels were different of course - one for rubbing , one for polishing.

So you were probably using the Polishing Compound
No biggie - but the Rubbing Compound would have cut a little faster.

Nope was using the rubbing compound for cutting with wool super cut pad. Then ordered the scratch and swirl remover. Had the polishing compound too.

I think I started sanding to soon and didn’t give clear time to cure as scratches are coming back. And can see little pigtails from using the 1000 dry on a Da.

I’m assembling the car and will take it to a professional to see what can be done about it all. If nothing just going to drive the car and enjoy it. My back can’t handle anymore body and paint stuff.

Thanks for all the help from everyone!!!